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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#461

Post by joshuaissac »

babypuncher wrote: post #336
georgeecollins wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entity that makes Game A has a choice where the app is sold. So, for Example, EA sells games on Origin but also Steam. There are lots of apps that are in many stores. On an iOS device, the entity that makes the app has no choice of what store to be in, they must be in Apple's. That is a monopoly. As many have pointed out, if you only want to get your apps from one store-- like Apple's-- you could chose that. But…

If that choice of app store actually matters to you, then you have the option to choose an Android phone instead of an iPhone. You're not being relegated to some obscure platform with no app support like people who didn't want to use Wintel in the '00s.

Google Play Store's revenue is half of that of the Apple App Store, so choosing only Android instead of both platforms would cut the expected app revenue by about two-thirds. Google also has similar app tax policies to Apple (and there is an ongoing lawsuit by Epic against them), so they really are relegated to the more obscure app stores.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#462

Post by hashingroll »

kevingadd wrote: post #128
covercash wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

You only have that right in advance, though. If I get an iPhone and buy a bunch of software on it and then 3 years later Apple Changes The Terms Of Our Relationship, I don't have any ability to migrate my data (let alone my purchases) to another platform. Not only do I have to buy a new smartphone, I have to re-buy my apps even if those apps are available on Android. Even if the app's developer wants to give me the a…

Do you think it would be unfair to the users who bought an iPhone 3 years back considering sandboxed appstore as one of the main reason to buy it?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#463

Post by vinger »

Arainach wrote: post #373
simias wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of cross-store games on PC. And even if some games end up being exclusive you might still benefit as a player thanks to the competition. If Epic started offering a very bad user experience game devs would hesitate to publish exclusively through them because they'd fear reduced revenue. It's also a very good thing for game devs who aren't at the mercy of the whims of a single company. Steam no longer…

> Epic started offering a very bad user experience game devs would hesitate to publish exclusively through them because they'd fear reduced revenue. This is demonstrably not true. Epic's launcher has been a laughing stock since it was announced. * It only recently got any form of Achievements (that are completely undiscoverable) * It has no way to join a party with your friends. I think it has Friends support but am…

None of those sounds like a very bad user experience. A very bad experience is games disppearing different games appearing after purchasing something else, games not working, memory usage too high..etc

No user reviews, no easy help button for noobs, no cloud save, only recently got achievements, can't crush a friends party. all sound like little nice to haves that don't add much value. Does it allow me to find/play the game? Everything else takes time away from playing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#464

Post by jvzr »

mdoms wrote: post #387
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

> I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lat…

> This is how life is as a PC gamer and it's.... actually good. Who cares if you need to open multiple stores?

I do. I hate it with passion. Launchers have to be updated, games have to be updated; they all have different UX, work better or worse than the other. Let me have just Steam and regulate Valve so that they don't abuse their position, and I'll be fine thank you.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#465

Post by CodeMage »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

> You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop.

You're only forced to use stuff when you're in the small minority that cares about not using stuff. Moxie Marlinspike explained it perfectly in his DEF CON 18 keynote.

Thing is, I don't think there's any conclusive proof that the majority of customer would be okay with what you're describing.

Most of us on PC are getting along just fine with one or two game launchers. I'm using GOG and Steam. My kid uses Steam and Epic.

When Funcom tried adding their own launcher for Conan Exiles, the vast majority of players berated them so hard on their forums that they removed it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#466

Post by unanswered »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

While we're at it, why does there need to be 18 brands of deodorant? I think regulations should be in place so there's only one brand!

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#467

Post by paulgb »

vlozko wrote: post #441
paulgb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s one way of looking at it, but I think the reason the issue keeps coming up on HN is that it feels like a serious regression that we’ve ended up in a world where one of the most ubiquitous platforms is a walled garden. Even in the days of Windows dominance, that wasn’t a problem. The transition happened so gradually that we ended up here without a lot of discussion, which is why the discussion is happening now.

Is it a regression, though? In the days of Windows, malware was rampant. There was no sense of sandboxing so installs could get deeply embedded and hard to purge. There was certainly the uncertainty of the validity of software when downloaded. This is not to suggest we should remove this capability from macOS/Windows but I wouldn’t call it a regression.

That’s a good point, but I feel like modern Mac desktop computing hits the right balance: users can opt to install only from the App store with a high degree of confidence, but power-users can use Homebrew without restriction.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#468

Post by zepto »

stale2002 wrote: post #459
zepto wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means lower prices for those who are smart enough to use the cheaper store This is guaranteed false. Unless the ‘cheaper store’ has almost all of the customers, you will need to support most of the stores, otherwise you’ll simply lose access to customers. Just to break even, developers will be forced to support multiple stores. If consumers want a cheaper option, there is nothing stopping them from buying a chea…

But it would be easier for a customer to get cheaper prices, for the games that voluntarily choose to be on other apps stores. That is one extra option for the consumer to choose, if they want it.

> the games that voluntarily choose to be on other apps stores.

It wouldn’t be voluntary. They would be forced to support the other stores or lose revenue.

Claiming it’s just a matter of choice for developers is simply not correct.

The extra options would also come at a cost for consumers who would need to deal with multiple stores, many of them with undesirable features such as weaker privacy protections.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#469

Post by ryandrake »

efdee wrote: post #437
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

There is no choice being taken away - you don't have a choice at this point - you must use "the" App Store whether you like it or not. Maybe the Apple App Store can get it's shit together and present a less hostile environment so these companies are able/willing to distribute on the Apple App Store again, and then you'll actually have a choice.

In both cases, I as the user, have no choice:

1. Apple wins = I have no choice but to use the app store.

2. Epic wins = I have no choice but to install multiple different app stores to run many different apps.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#470

Post by CivBase »

BillinghamJ wrote: post #389
CivBase wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each. Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without…

Absolutely yes. As a user, I really wish Microsoft required the use of their store. Having a single place to go is a lot easier

Maybe you'd be interested in joining the dozens of other Windows 10 S users.
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