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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#401

Post by dannyw »

BillinghamJ wrote: post #389
CivBase wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each. Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without…

Absolutely yes. As a user, I really wish Microsoft required the use of their store. Having a single place to go is a lot easier

What you are wishing for though is the death of computing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#402

Post by issamehh »

Retric wrote: post #337
StavrosK wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's either a choice between "not running some specific game/app whose publisher made their own app store" and "not running any iOS app because my only option is to not have an iPhone"? I know which one gives me more choice.

We have more choice today, because currently Android and iOS have different models. Break up the App Store and your left with a single model. What nobody is talking about is Epic could completely avoid the premium their complaining about by using a website for all transactions. Just like the Kindle App or Netflix etc. The only thing they get from this lawsuit is in app micro transactions. As such it’s really a questi…

Reading Apple's policy makes it seem not so simple. Netflix, for example, avoids the cost because it is a subscription service which is specifically excluded from having a cut taken out. I can't speak for Kindle, but when I very recently read over this it was clear that just routing to a site to handle the purchase would not be sufficient to bypass this

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#403

Post by dkonofalski »

gerash wrote: post #384
dkonofalski wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally a major reason why people buy Apple products, though. If you can't sideload things, there's literally no chance of your phone being compromised by those things.

Is part of your reasoning also the fact that devs can't even mention in their apps that they have a website that users can buy their subscription from?

No but that's a reasonable restriction considering that apps would still benefit from the App Store ecosystem but would be able to circumvent the requirements of it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#404

Post by jpttsn »

paulgb wrote: post #174
isodev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. The iPhone is not a computer platform, it's an integrated experience. Raspberry Pi or the PC you assemble is a platform (which you can still choose to do, if you want).

That’s one way of looking at it, but I think the reason the issue keeps coming up on HN is that it feels like a serious regression that we’ve ended up in a world where one of the most ubiquitous platforms is a walled garden. Even in the days of Windows dominance, that wasn’t a problem. The transition happened so gradually that we ended up here without a lot of discussion, which is why the discussion is happening now.

No, Apple has been pestered to make the iPhone an open platform from day one. They’ve consistently said no.

I bet you’re right about the motivation for this silly outrage: People claim the iPhone is a PC because they wish it to be, because the cognitive dissonance was so great when “Open didn’t always win”

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#405

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tfehring wrote: post #275
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the iPhone was an open platform, you could develop a mod that makes your Fortnite character look like whatever you want, for free. (It wouldn't show up that way for other people by default, but that's someone else's phone, not yours.)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'd expect that iOS being an open platform is neither necessary nor sufficient for that. As I understand it, Epic could allow users to load free custom skins today, even though it operates on a closed platform. And conversely, even if iOS were an open platform, Fortnite could remain closed-source, and I'd expect Epic could take measures (hash-validating assets on launch?) to prevent…

On a traditional PC, or on a Mac with System Integrity Protection disabled, there isn't a lot Epic could do to prevent installing mods. The user can inject whatever code they like into the Fortnite process. They can rewrite data in memory, and even control the kernel if it comes to that.

Epic could try to make life difficult for modders, but a lot of PC games have tried that over the years, and it generally doesn't work when players are dedicated.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#406

Post by dleslie »

somehnrdr14726 wrote: post #60
dleslie wrote: post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

Marketing anxiety via social proofing has a long history, much older than computers. Beauty products, cleaning supplies, child safety gear, etc. Why limit the condemnation to virtual goods?

Beauty products, cleaning supplies and child safety gear are all examples of heavily regulated industries.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#407

Post by mcfedr »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

I guess here is less about your choice as a consumer, but the choice of the publisher

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#408

Post by dkonofalski »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #330
dkonofalski wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally a major reason why people buy Apple products, though. If you can't sideload things, there's literally no chance of your phone being compromised by those things.

Thats like claiming Isaak newton was a great scientist because he stayed a virgin. People buy iPhones and tolerate lack of sideloading.

What? That's a terrible analogy. I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. Those 2 things aren't related. A large percentage of iPhone users buy the device because there are less avenues for issues.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#409

Post by acomjean »

arendtio wrote: post #291

A bit OT, but I still fail to grasp why Apple is allowed to restrict all browsers on iOS to the Safari rendering engine. Microsoft had to pay big because they didn't asked their users properly for alternative browsers, yet Apple doesn't even give other browsers a fair chance to compete on iOS. Consumers suffer because Apple controls about 50% of the mobile market and if Apple decides a certain feature will not be ava…

Its not that off topic.

The web is a platform. But Apple controls the browser like it controls the web store so it can selectively exclude functionality that pushes people to use its monopoly app store.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#410

Post by jpttsn »

CivBase wrote: post #363
jpttsn wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t Apple just ban you from installing the Porn Store? Or do you think Epic will make them allow any and all alternative app stores?

If Apple allows you to install alternative app stores, I assume that means they allow you to "side load" apps. If that's the case, Apple can't really ban you from installing anything.

So they would be unable to ban the Pirate Bay Store, the Scamcoin Drug Store, the Cracked Epic Games Store, the Tiananmen 1989 Store?
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