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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#731

Post by luuurker »

natch wrote: post #359
luuurker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit for you as a user to side with Apple on things like this?

Advocating for security and user privacy protection.

The comment I replied to wasn't advocating for either of that. It was essentially an excuse to support Apple's decision to remove/break a feature because their OS isn't capable of handling a different rendering engine.

From my point of view, I don't benefit if 1) Apple removes this option in my region and 2) there's no good reason for me to be against iOS handling better permissions of web apps and other rendering engines, like it already does for all other apps (and something that Android handles without problems).

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#732

Post by natch »

sensanaty wrote: post #405
natch wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as an abusive stepparent, you run the "Spy on Me" PWA on your stepdaughter's phone, and click the permission dialog, and she's none the wiser. Do you think that's great? Apple does not.

If you're an abusive step-parent with access to your daughter's phone, you can already install "Spy on Me" software in the form of regular apps, a PWA changes nothing here.

Sure you can but Apple has at least a prayer and a hope of catching those apps in App review to protect users.

And if they don't, they have at least a chance of circling back and catching them later.

They want that.

With apps that they cannot review such as PWA apps, they have no such ability.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#733

Post by pompino »

gretch wrote: post #710
pompino wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely odd to outsource your moral principles based on which mega corp you opened your wallet to.

Morals? You think you’re some kind of righteous crusader? I’m talking about toys and gadgets. The ability to view memes.

Let me correct some of your misunderstandings.

The comment you were replying to, correctly, pointed out that there is no benefit to the user to side with Apple's anti-user stance. This story, and comments about the story are having to do with a users right to install a browser of their choice, choose a payment method of their choice, etc - which is collectively under the DMA that the EU passed into law - democratically. Apple has repeatedly tried their best to spin this, but it is easy to see past the spin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#734

Post by luuurker »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #383
pb7 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty simple: I like the way Apple does most things. I'm rarely disappointed by the culmination of all of their decisions. I'm frequently disappointed with how other companies do things therefore I don't want their disease to spread to things I'm perfectly content with.

I couldn’t put my feelings into words but this sums it up fairly well. Apple, for all their flaws, typically creates an outstanding product from a security, privacy, and general end-user perspective. At the end of the day, Apple has earned my trust to make choices that maybe aren’t the most “open” choices, because usually they end up being the best experience for me as an end consumer.

Apple typically makes good decisions, but they don't always do that or act in your best interest. And that's the problem with supporting all their decisions without checking if they're good or not for you.

In this case, iOS isn't capable of handling different rending engines well. So instead of asking them to improve iOS so this isn't a problem (like it isn't on Android and even other iOS apps), you side with their decision of breaking/removing a feature, even though it doesn't benefit you in any way.

I'm sure you can see the problem with this.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#735

Post by pompino »

pb7 wrote: post #720
pompino wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely odd to outsource your moral principles based on which mega corp you opened your wallet to.

You opened your wallet to the same megacorp. The only difference is you're sitting on your high horse for some reason.

I agree that it is the users right to install a browser of their choice, use a payment method of their choice. The recent EU law, which was passed in a democratic system, supports this right.

You're free to make up your own mind.

BTW, My morals, despite my personal failings, are superior to Apple's on this particular issue. Its an interlinked economy with interlinked dependencies on various entities that you may or may not agree with. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to protest them. Otherwise nobody can protest climate change if they drive a car - which is ridiculous.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#736

Post by natch »

internetter wrote: post #407
natch wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android "handles it" if you want to call shrugging it off "handling it," by making different security tradeoffs that do not emphasize security as much as Apple does.

Android zero days are worth as much as iPhone ones.

Both can be true. Google pays as much for zero days, and Google prioritizes security and privacy less than Apple does.

Google's very means of income relies on gathering and to an extent sharing your personal data.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#737

Post by lxgr »

sakjur wrote: post #599
johnnyanmac wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also know 70% of revenue comes from games. And there's no way proper game is going run on a PWA. I also invoke Android again... PWAs exist, Google still holds the lions share. Google has freaked out about it too and is being sanctioned as we speak for it, but most customers simply aren't going to look for an alt app store outside of niche uses.

If we’re looking at a game that doesn’t use a lot of hardware resources like Candy Crush or Angry Birds, those could possibly run quite well as a PWA?

In particular, all game streaming services (Geforce Now, Xbox Game Pass etc.) have until very recently needed to exist as PWAs since Apple would not let them into the App Store.

The crucial PWA feature here is being able to display them in full screen, without Safari's navigation bar.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#738

Post by dnissley »

gtsteve wrote: post #602
JacobThreeThree wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. The more important context is the legal one, not what laypeople think. Apple is presenting PWAs as viable alternatives to the app store in a legal context: https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Apple%20Pty%20Lim…

Companies can quite happily hold two opposing viewpoints when it suits them. Apple's products usually have some kind of pleasing consistency but that doesn't mean their corporate dealings have to be. In a similar vein, a startup will be very happy to talk about how valuable it is, except when it comes to talking to tax authorities, whereupon suddenly their shares are borderline worthless.

Eh, this is at least a little different. Startups talk themselves up to investors where they need to convince the investors that they will be really valuable at some point in the future. This is compared to tax authorities who are only concerned about current value, which is often essentially zero when it comes to startups.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#739

Post by jc_dc »

troupo wrote: post #531
jc_dc wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to a degree, that’s why developers tend to hate Apple. They paint us as a pack of crims trying to steal from unsuspecting Apple users.

> They paint us as a pack of crims trying to steal from unsuspecting Apple users. Have you seen the world around you for the past 20 years or so? I'd say this characterises developers (well, companies they work for at least) quite well, don't you think?

No, I’d say the vast majority of reputable developers are not trying to scam you.

But there are some trying to scam you…and some of those are also in the App Store…as long as they use IAP to scam you all is well.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#740

Post by xvector »

leifross wrote: post #570
xvector wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is economically meaningless on the grand scale. They are only 7% of Apple's revenue, and similarly low for other companies. And every day they become a less profitable market to operate in. The EU holds power only as long as the rest of the world is willing to deal with its BS. Trying to "break up Apple" is simply not within the EU's power as Apple is worth more than the EU's whole tech industry combined. Appl…

Last time I checked, Apples holdings are all based in Ireland. So from a legal standpoint, it's a Irish company, held accountable by EU law. It can't "simply leave".

If you think the US will let it's shiniest company be destroyed by the EU I don't even know what to say.
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