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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#351

Post by johnnyanmac »

dangus wrote: post #342
thimp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

I think PWAs are an outright failure and a technical solution looking for a problem. I don’t even know where to find one. For one thing, if Apple is complying with the EU’s alternative App Store and browser engine mandate, they’re even less useful than before. Why do I as a user want a PWA when I could have a native app?

I mean, the problem is the same one introduced since the two big mobile platforms were established: "I want to publish to IOS/Android as a native app without needing to have two separate builds to manage". PWAs make that pitch to those who already have websites to triple dip. It never has to promise to be as good as a native app, just "good enough".

Does it live up to that? YMMV. It's probably fine for very simple apps, probably comes apart at the seams for anything trying to look modern or have fancier functionality.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#352

Post by spaceribs »

ChilledTonic wrote: post #130
spaceribs wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that Apple would be blamed for Edge/Brave/Firefox's security oversight.

Why wouldn't they be? Especially considering their existing reputation in consumers minds for security and reliabilty?

Because they own and maintain the operating system, not the vulnerable software?

I understand that they've built this image of being a grand infinite protector for all their users within the walls of their garden, but they've had plenty of security issues within their own software, and plenty of cases where application developers have sidestepped their rules.

This relationship of trust with Apple is cultish at best. To say that I can trust Apple but not Mozilla? What are we smoking here?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#353

Post by zappb »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #192
chongli wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because Windows’ reputation was already mud. Microsoft made their business on corporate users anyway. Apple is a consumer brand. A data breach on iOS is like nudity in a Disney movie: utterly brand-destroying.

Windows was both. If you were buying a computer in the early 2000s, it was almost certainly a Windows PC.

That was because Microsoft abused their monopoly in operating systems at the time to force OEMs to use their OS on all their computers in order to maintain the industry discounts on OEM licensing.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#354

Post by m463 »

benguild wrote: post #101
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

how do they know low usage if there is no download from apple?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#355

Post by dbtc »

bhelkey wrote: post #341
layer8 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zenfone 10 is almost the same size as the regular iPhone (a tad bit narrower, a tad bit thicker, same weight). The form factor is not like the iPhone mini.

> The form factor is not like the iPhone mini. Compared to the iPhone 13 mini the Zenfone 10 is 15mm taller, 3.9mm wider, and 1.75mm deeper.

It's the same height as the regular iphone and the width is right in the middle. I understand that's quite small for a mobile device these days. Thanks for the rec.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#356

Post by zappb »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #200
geodel wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement. Well, EU can and will force, fine, or ban US companies as they see fit but there is not some fundamental correctness to their viewpoint

Any fundamental correctness of their viewpoint is by virtue of them representing more people (EU citizens) than Apple's CEO represents (himself and, I guess, the Apple corporation, if you count that). On moral issues, the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint (if there is one) is, by definition, the one that more people say is the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint.

China represents twice as many people as the EU. This is not an enticing argument. Can you at least qualify this with democratic representation?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#357

Post by johnnyanmac »

wokwokwok wrote: post #315
arghwhat wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual. What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

>and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features.

so, Apple? Since Apple has also required browsers for years to use their own safari backend, this isn't even an issue of "oh well it doesn't work on Firefox".

Sounds like they cornered themselves there.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#358

Post by natch »

sigmar wrote: post #17
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

tbh, I thought the summary in techcrunch was much easier to read and concise. >Browsers also could install web apps on the system without a user’s awareness and consent. Couldn't this be entirely solved with an OS permission-like prompt "are you sure you want [progressive web app name] added to home screen?"

So, as an abusive stepparent, you run the "Spy on Me" PWA on your stepdaughter's phone, and click the permission dialog, and she's none the wiser. Do you think that's great?

Apple does not.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#360

Post by overstay8930 »

m463 wrote: post #354
benguild wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

how do they know low usage if there is no download from apple?

Because they know what’s on your Home Screen If you enable Usage analytics?
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