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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#381

Post by jc_dc »

dangus wrote: post #342
thimp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

I think PWAs are an outright failure and a technical solution looking for a problem. I don’t even know where to find one. For one thing, if Apple is complying with the EU’s alternative App Store and browser engine mandate, they’re even less useful than before. Why do I as a user want a PWA when I could have a native app?

PWA’s on Android can be installed directly from a website…it’s awesome, less friction and less scammy than the Play Store.

On iOS you need to use the Share > Add to Home Screen which normies have no clue about. You’ll find out if the site supports PWA features AFTER you add it to your Home Screen. This of course is done entirely on purpose to make them harder to find and less appealing than the revenue generating App Store.

For me, I use iPhone entirely because pixel doesn’t support cardav and caldav out of the box…if I can’t use PWA’s on my phone then I’m going back to android cause I can solve the email problem easier than I can solve the productivity tools not being available via PWA’s.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#382

Post by giantrobot »

ajross wrote: post #215
robertoandred wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This IS adhering to the DMA. Every browser engine is treated the same.

Deliberately removing useful features from your own product so that you don't have to let other people implement the same features may be technically conforming to the letter of the law, but is clearly violating it in spirit. The spirit of the law is platform interoperability: your control over the platform shouldn't restrict what other people can make it do (be it "run an app store" or "run a web app").

No one is obliged to obey anything but the letter of the law. If you want someone to obey the spirit of a law you need to put that in the letter.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#383

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

pb7 wrote: post #99
luuurker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit for you as a user to side with Apple on things like this?

Pretty simple: I like the way Apple does most things. I'm rarely disappointed by the culmination of all of their decisions. I'm frequently disappointed with how other companies do things therefore I don't want their disease to spread to things I'm perfectly content with.

I couldn’t put my feelings into words but this sums it up fairly well. Apple, for all their flaws, typically creates an outstanding product from a security, privacy, and general end-user perspective.

At the end of the day, Apple has earned my trust to make choices that maybe aren’t the most “open” choices, because usually they end up being the best experience for me as an end consumer.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#384

Post by jc_dc »

zer00eyz wrote: post #22
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

Without this type of isolation and enforcement, malicious... camera, microphone or location ... Browsers ... 30 some million lines of code in chromium browsers. Thats bigger than the linux kernel. The HN crowed might not LIKE apples response but they have a very defensible position. Edit: Its not like we haven't seen this play out on the desktop recently: https://www.theverge.com/24054329/microsoft-edge-automatic-c..…

I don’t buy it. Apple build iOS and I’m sure they will sandbox alt browsers as they do with every other 3rd party app on the phone.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#385

Post by xvector »

nonethewiser wrote: post #371
shusaku wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why this legislation is stupid: if you don’t like the way Apple does things just buy an android.

The EUs solution? More reactive legislation.

The EU does not know how to innovate, only legislate.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#386

Post by jc_dc »

M4v3R wrote: post #79
summerlight wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.

You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.

And to a degree, that’s why developers tend to hate Apple. They paint us as a pack of crims trying to steal from unsuspecting Apple users.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#387

Post by xvector »

leifross wrote: post #321
lannisterstark wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yeah man EU is totally gonna break up apple. Some of y'all need to be reminded to be realistic.

On the contrary, this tantrum by no means works to lessen the growing idea that control of the platform should be put into the hands of a independent third party. While not European in origin, the platform holds and manages tremendous value for us, to the extent where small changes can cause mayor economic disruption, and Apple has not been managing it fairly. And for a state actor, which exists to serve the common g…

The EU is economically meaningless on the grand scale. They are only 7% of Apple's revenue, and similarly low for other companies. And every day they become a less profitable market to operate in. The EU holds power only as long as the rest of the world is willing to deal with its BS.

Trying to "break up Apple" is simply not within the EU's power as Apple is worth more than the EU's whole tech industry combined. Apple would simply leave and the whole region would be left with shiny bricks.

If the EU pursues this with big tech at large it will find itself in the 80s. It needs US big tech far more than US big tech needs it.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#388

Post by jc_dc »

overstay8930 wrote: post #363
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this matters to the GP's argument. Windows was a virus hotbed for decades and that does not appear to have affected its reputation in a meaningful way.

Windows doesn’t have a reputation. It’s the default. Nobody actually likes using windows you just have to. Do you really think there are people out there asking for advertisements in their start menu?

To this day, I prefer windows, and I have to switch between Mac and windows all day every day.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#389

Post by xvector »

johanneskanybal wrote: post #25

As a European dev I want apple to fail super hard and implode. They used to be so cool and make slick hardware for their nische but now I'm happy to use worse hardware as long as they disapear from the face of the earth.

As an American dev I can't wait to see tech companies leave the EU and leave it in shambles as the EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate and rent-seek from our companies.

Frankly, the region needs us far more than we need it.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#390

Post by xvector »

flessner wrote: post #326
sreejithr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop this bureaucracy in the EU and build something for a change. Shipping for EU is stupid hard. And you guys are declining in economy. Pretty soon, there won't be any economic arguments to continue doing business in EU with all the cost of this bureaucracy involved.

1) You can predict the future economic state of the EU as well as the next person 2) Most of the "bureaucracy" that hits small to medium sized companies is the GDPR, which any business with the slightest of integrity should have no problem to follow

You can easily use the dearth of meaningful consumer technology companies in the EU and their absurd overindexing on regulation as a predictor of what the EU's economy will look like.

While the rest of the world dives into technology and AI, the EU will become a backwater, because the EU does not know how to craft regulation that balances innovation and "consumer good." It literally only focuses on the latter at all costs. And as technology eats the world, this will be the death of the EU.

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