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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#211

Post by leifross »

hardcopy wrote: post #83

Sigh. This is a huge headache for me. https://lemmy.world/post/12001569 (I develop https://github.com/aeharding/voyager )

I feel you, I am the sole developer of https://ember.ly

Certainly feels great to have your livelyhood kicked to the curb by some rich american megacorporation throwing a tantrum.

The worst part is that probably 40 percent of the development time has been trying to wrangle my way around weird rendering quirks in safari, never again. My next site will have a banner suggesting safari users open the site in firefox..

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#212

Post by jdminhbg »

Someone wrote: post #114
ivan_gammel wrote: post #55

Very questionable argumentation. This can be seen from two different angles: 1. PWA is a native wrapper for a web application, not a browser. It is supposed to be limited to the app website. DMA does not tell Apple that every app with embedded WebView should offer users possibility to switch the engine. Why PWA should be treated differently here? I‘d rather clarify this with regulators first, before harming end users…

> DMA does not tell Apple that every app with embedded WebView should offer users possibility to switch the engine. I don’t see how that’s related to the issue being discussed. > In the meantime current solution could stay simply because it does not hinder any competition. Why do you think “you can install a third party browser, but if you do, you can’t add PWAs to the Home Screen” doesn’t hinder competition?

> Why do you think “you can install a third party browser, but if you do, you can’t add PWAs to the Home Screen” doesn’t hinder competition?

Because you can't add PWAs to the Home Screen if you use the first-party browser, either. The whole point of this article is they're turning off PWAs for Safari so that they're all on the same feature footing.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#213

Post by arghwhat »

zer00eyz wrote: post #22
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

Without this type of isolation and enforcement, malicious... camera, microphone or location ... Browsers ... 30 some million lines of code in chromium browsers. Thats bigger than the linux kernel. The HN crowed might not LIKE apples response but they have a very defensible position. Edit: Its not like we haven't seen this play out on the desktop recently: https://www.theverge.com/24054329/microsoft-edge-automatic-c..…

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual.

What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#214

Post by chongli »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #192
chongli wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because Windows’ reputation was already mud. Microsoft made their business on corporate users anyway. Apple is a consumer brand. A data breach on iOS is like nudity in a Disney movie: utterly brand-destroying.

Windows was both. If you were buying a computer in the early 2000s, it was almost certainly a Windows PC.

Right, but Apple built their brand on being the alternative to Windows for people who didn’t want to deal with security issues, viruses, crashes, bundled junkware, etc.

You can draw a direct line between Apple’s original marketing pitch (easy to use, simple, secure, appliance-style computing) and the iOS walled garden. Just as you can with Disney and their family-oriented brand. It’s not a compelling argument to say that other film studios have nudity in their films when Disney is the brand at issue.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#215

Post by ajross »

robertoandred wrote: post #27
deminature wrote: post #6

In combination with the 'Core Technology Fee' that financially cripples any developer that tries to release a popular app outside the official app store, this is pathetic behavior. Hopefully the EU smacks them down for this temper tantrum at being forced to adhere to the DMA. They are trying to flex their market power and should be reminded they operate within a system of laws that doesn't bend for anyone, regardless…

This IS adhering to the DMA. Every browser engine is treated the same.

Deliberately removing useful features from your own product so that you don't have to let other people implement the same features may be technically conforming to the letter of the law, but is clearly violating it in spirit. The spirit of the law is platform interoperability: your control over the platform shouldn't restrict what other people can make it do (be it "run an app store" or "run a web app").

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#217

Post by arghwhat »

summerlight wrote: post #65
zer00eyz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without this type of isolation and enforcement, malicious... camera, microphone or location ... Browsers ... 30 some million lines of code in chromium browsers. Thats bigger than the linux kernel. The HN crowed might not LIKE apples response but they have a very defensible position. Edit: Its not like we haven't seen this play out on the desktop recently: https://www.theverge.com/24054329/microsoft-edge-automatic-c..…

Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.

Well, while the argument is entirely bogus as "PWAs are unsafe" implies that loading web pages in that browser itself is unsafe and thus stopping PWAs but not loading pages is pointless, you do have to have full trust in Apple for security of your device as they are the sole provider for the core platform providing most of the security primitives used.

That just doesn't exclude trusting others as well.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#218

Post by [deleted] »

glenjamin wrote: post #162
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

Am I missing something? Couldn’t they allow you open PWAs in Safari, or fall back to opening a URL in another browser? Is there some part of the DMA which demands full feature parity?

[deleted]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#219

Post by jdmdmdmdmd »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #200
geodel wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement. Well, EU can and will force, fine, or ban US companies as they see fit but there is not some fundamental correctness to their viewpoint

Any fundamental correctness of their viewpoint is by virtue of them representing more people (EU citizens) than Apple's CEO represents (himself and, I guess, the Apple corporation, if you count that). On moral issues, the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint (if there is one) is, by definition, the one that more people say is the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint.

[dead]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#220

Post by munk-a »

dingle_thunk wrote: post #190
summerlight wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Apple, ownership of the "trust problem" is an intrinsic part of "making good products". Yes, this might be true. And the majority of elected officials in EU fundamentally disagrees with that statement.

Because of course elected officials without any expertise, representing a very small minority of humanity, are the best arbiters of reality.

Non experts have to rule on expert subjects all the time - sometimes this goes hilariously wrong (like the internet being a series of tubes) but usually what happens is that the non-expert relies on the testimony of experts to make their judgement.

Politicians aren't expected to be experts due to the immense breadth of subjects they need to consider - they're expected to consult experts. Whether an individual politician is an expert[1] is pretty irrelevant.

All of these statements are about our general expectations of politicians - whether you think politicians adhere to that point or have comments on specific politicians is beside the scope of my comment. As a less controversial example it might be good to instead consider how judges operate who are expected to provide well reasoned judgements on subjects they know nothing about.

1. Sometimes those former expert politicians are the worst of all since they _think_ they know the way things are and won't listen to actual experts but they've been out of the industry so long that they've lost their familiarity with the subject.

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