Live data from Hacker News

Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

531–540 of 829 posts

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#531
post #386
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.

And to a degree, that’s why developers tend to hate Apple. They paint us as a pack of crims trying to steal from unsuspecting Apple users.

> They paint us as a pack of crims trying to steal from unsuspecting Apple users.

Have you seen the world around you for the past 20 years or so? I'd say this characterises developers (well, companies they work for at least) quite well, don't you think?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, while the argument is entirely bogus as "PWAs are unsafe" implies that loading web pages in that browser itself is unsafe and thus stopping PWAs but not loading pages is pointless, you do have to have full trust in Apple for security of your device as they are the sole provider for the core platform providing most of the security primitives used. That just doesn't exclude trusting others as well.

> Well, while the argument is entirely bogus as "PWAs are unsafe" implies that loading web pages in that browser itself is unsafe Except that's exactly what Apple is saying. Their engine -- and their brand depends on it -- offers users assurances arbitrary engines do not offer. Apple says PWAs are safe because Safari is safe, while not-Safari PWAs are not-safe. And, if not safe, Apple is at least accountable. Google'…

Well, that link definitely plays in Apple's favour :)

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#533

I am on Apples side here. I have been a macOS and iPhone user for over a decade now, but have had Android devices and I use Windows for games and work. I think what the EU has done to Apple is unfair. It is unfortunate in my opinion that they can’t just tell them to get stuffed. They have had to build probably 100-million LOCs just so EU have the right to pick their own browser, and yet Safari works just fine. In fac…

>Safari works just fine

No, it does not. It is the old Internet Explorer of our day. It is by far the worst of all the browsers. This is like saying "this car from Apple with square wheels work just fine" and not at all acknowledge that every single road in the world had to be made bumpy to allow for this and made them worse for everyone else. Try developing for it.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Every conforming cable supports 3 amps and 20 volts. If you think something's incorrect with that, be specific . But the spec is pretty clear. The exact details of the faster cables are murky because there's old and new versions of that section of the spec, but very few devices use enough power to care about that.

> Every conforming cable The problem is all the non-conforming cables that people have, that look exactly the same as conforming cables.

Except they were responding to a comment criticizing USB-C PD as a standard. Non-standard cables are irrelevant to that discussion.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#535
post #445
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

> In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is. OH (frequently): - hey I need to to up, do you have a phone charger? - yup, which kind? - not "an Apple" - oh, so USB? - yeah the "standard" one, not the "new usb" That said, I'm surprised many do know about the literal "usb-c" term. Micro USB A though flies over their head, it's "small usb" or "standard usb" every time. Of note: EU here, and while t…

With my friends it's either "USB-C" or the "round USB". Maybe it's already too old to be referred to as the "new USB". The old one is definitely the "old USB" or the "not round USB".

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#536
post #426
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWA’s on Android can be installed directly from a website…it’s awesome, less friction and less scammy than the Play Store. On iOS you need to use the Share > Add to Home Screen which normies have no clue about. You’ll find out if the site supports PWA features AFTER you add it to your Home Screen. This of course is done entirely on purpose to make them harder to find and less appealing than the revenue generating App…

Google should in theory have the same play store revenue motivation to hide PWAs, right? Granted, they also want people to stay on the web to continue using Google.com, so I guess those are two competing priorities. That to me is a bit of an indicator that Apple just doesn’t believe in the merits of the technology. I think they might be asking the same question in asking: what problem is this solving? Every platform…

Google have an interest in moving people away from desktop applications because they don’t have a desktop OS (not counting Chromebook).

We run 3 SaaS apps. One is strictly native, and the other two are strictly web. Writing for 4 platforms on the native app is an extremely expensive exercise and then we are also subject to the insanity that is the App Store. Long story here, everything from App Store review times on mission critical software to the fact that their billing mechanism simply doesn’t work for B2B SaaS…and by the way, we get zero traffic from the App Store as that’s simply not where our customers are looking for the solution we provide. Fortunately, bulk of our customers start on desktop where we self distribute (code signing on windows and notarization on mac) with ev ssl on marketing sites. Why is the App Store scammy over the open web…search for any number of popular apps and look at how many have been cloned. Sure, you can do this on the web with paid ads and enough SEO effort but it’s much harder.

To this day, Apple continue to allow keyword stuffing, advertising on trademarked names, and blatant copyright infringement in app descriptions and even I (fairly tech savvy) accidentally purchased a clone of poly bridge for my kid cause they’ll list the clone above the real one on an exact term search. What was apples response when I said I purchased the wrong app? Tough cookies!

This is the same reason I hate shopping on Amazon. I simply prefer to have a direct relationship with the companies I buy things from, and from what I can tell, our customers prefer have a direct relationship with us.

But back to why PWA’s are awesome…simply put, iteration time. We can publish dozens of improvements every day and roll back instantly when an issue arises. We simply can’t do that with native as long as the Apple / Google act as a gate keepers. When we allow proper sideloading without the scare tactics and dirty tricks, we’ll take the time to build native again.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#539
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair call on your first point about PWA knowledge level in users. Regarding your users knowledge of what USB-C is: are you sure your user group are not potato's? Most people I know, including the teenage daughters and their friends, all know what USB-C is these days.

One of them was going to buy a new phone because it took a long time to charge. This was because she had a crap charger and crap cable. I am unsure if they are potatoes or not but I suspect they might be :)

It can be only the charger or the cable. It usually happens when using the charger of an old phone for a new one or when buying a new cable, maybe because the one coming with the phone is too short and doesn't go from the plug to the table. Both chargers and cables usually list their compatible phones.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#540
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really sure how to respond to this. An airliner already has all the controls required for being piloted. Why am I not allowed to pilot my next commercial flight? What kind of ridiculous "argument" is this? Am I putting hundreds of other people in risk by installing Firefox on my iPhone? The fact remains that the EU in fact does intend to put you in front the airliner's controls. You can of course choose to turn…

> What kind of ridiculous "argument" is this? Am I putting hundreds of other people in risk by installing Firefox on my iPhone? Certainly it’s an extreme example, but yes, giving people the ability to install other browsers and app stores is increasing their risk. This ruling makes it possible for some companies to decide to only allow their app to be installed through an alternate app store, which won’t necessarily…

> giving people the ability to install other browsers and app stores is increasing their risk

But it is increasing _their_ risk. That's the massive difference from your example. Installing other browsers and app stores is increasing _your_ risk

Post reply on HN