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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#731

Post by kbos87 »

Hunter235711 wrote: post #687

I am not anti-vax, but I STRONGLY oppose this vaccine mandate. Looking at the CDC data here: ( https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... ) there have been 3,043 covid deaths in the 18-29 year range out of 103,738 total deaths in that same age range. I'm 29 and in good health. I know I'm much more likely to die from activities I enjoy like rock climbing, farm work, skydiving, driving my car, but…

There are so many conveniently chosen facts and holes in your argument that I don’t even know where to begin.

The CDC dataset you cite above only reflects death, not the serious illness and disability ~30% of people end up with.

Yes, vaccinated individuals can spread COVID, but this is dramatically less likely if you are vaccinated.

You assume you’ll be less likely to spread delta because you’ll quarantine, but you ignore the fact that much of the transmission we see is from asymptomatic spread, before people even know they are sick.

All of the mental gymnastics, for what? Getting vaccinated is barely even an inconvenience and we have real proof from hundreds of millions of doses that it’s safe and effective.

The selfishness and unwillingness to cooperate for the greater good is mind blowing.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#732

Post by s1artibartfast »

steverb wrote: post #305
zerocount wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is they still want people who've recovered from COVID to get vaccinated. This is a very big deal and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole OSHA plan goes to the Supreme Court. I've recovered from COVID and stand against vaccine mandates.

Not sure why you think that's a problem. The vaccines offer better protection against variants than having had COVID and recovering. Edit: Apparently this is new information to people: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr...

Your link doesn't address better protection against variants specifically, just better protection against reinfection in general. The linked study specifically states that it does not include delta.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#733

Post by josho »

ctrlp wrote: post #460
josho wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't spoken to an anti-vaxxer yet. Those that I've seen in the media have been completely irrational (5g/bill gates theories). So, I'm looking forward to learning from a rational person what their motivations are. What are your reasons to refuse a vaccine? Weren't you vaccinated as a child for polio & chicken pox? Why is this vaccine a hill to die on? Thanks.

Not every anti-mandate person is a anti-vax. Government mandates are a political issue. Depending on the country and its laws, some believe mandates are illegal and constitute government tyranny. They may value rule by law or autonomy over their bodies. They may choose to receive vaccine but don't want to be 'forced to choose'. Not every anti-covid-vax person is anti-other-vax. The mRNA vaccine is novel. Many believe…

Thank you for sharing.

> some believe mandates are illegal and constitute government tyranny

This isn't a vaccine mandate. You are free to choose to be tested or vaccinated. Do you feel being forced to make this choice is tyranny, if so how bad do things have to get before the good of society becomes more important than your personal choice?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#734

Post by tomrod »

meepmorp wrote: post #433
SiempreViernes wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean the civil war, that wasn't to "keep them together": it was one side forcing the other to get back in line and give up its slaves. It was not a conflict where two somewhat equal partners work out their difficulties, it was a war where the central government fought down an insurrection and during witch the south got utterly devastated and was under occupation for 10 years.

> it was one side forcing the other to get back in line and give up its slaves. This is a hilariously skewed understanding of the civil war. Do you also believe the south seceded over states rights?

Over their states rights to hold slaves, which were an important component in the agrarian economy and an established part of the Antebellum culture.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#735

Post by flavius29663 »

robmccoll wrote: post #364
Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

Not saying I disagree with you, but all the examples you gave are about some things that are a privilege or just optional (e.g. if you can't build a bridge to follow all the latest standards, you can just postpone it). Working is not really a privilege, you have to do it in order to survive.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#736

Post by xyzzy21 »

burntwater wrote: post #474
disneygibson wrote: post #353

Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.

I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…

The odds of infection are equally low. MULTIPLE both to get the actual odds of dying from it.

Plus then COMPARE that to other probabilities of death such as car accidents, medical mistakes, etc. which are FAR HIGHER.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#737

Post by TechBro8615 »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #564
disneygibson wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that isn’t how rights work. They are guarantees that cannot be violated, no matter how democratically popular they are.

aside from the trade-off discussion above, it looks like you also have opinions about the constitutionality of this move it is, of course, totally okay to have an opinion on that, but an opinion does not necessarily grant decision power, or even veto power, so ultimately you aren't the one who gets to decide what constitutes a right, and you aren't the one who gets to decide what constitutes a violation or an infring…

Just to be extra clear — the constitution does not grant rights. It acknowledges rights that were “endowed by our creator.” They exist by default, and they… oh, you know, the thing…

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#738

Post by tomrod »

disneygibson wrote: post #393
moistrobot wrote: post #284

We're getting closer to two Americas. Policies like these will only exacerbate the transition. Expect to mass over non-compliance from conservative states and businesses

The fact that this has been divided along sociopolitical lines should make it obvious that neither side is genuinely looking at the issue with clear eyes. It’s entirely tribal, as the comments in this thread illustrate.

I don't think it's social lines, socioeconomic lines. Following Karen Armstrong's political philosophy, all politics not local are inherently religious/ideals driven.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#739

Post by xyzzy21 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #706
burntwater wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…

> I'm going to do everything I can to not let it And until yesterday, that was entirely your choice! Unfortunately, as of today, it isn't any more.

It's still a choice!

If they fire you, that's a better option if you don't believe the vaccines are safe (they have NOT been fully tested - you are a guinea pig in the safety trials if you got the jab), the vaccines have NOT been approved (the lie of the claim otherwise is that no currently available vaccine has been approved - they are all still in EUA - they are still experimental while the "approved" Pfizer vaccine has never been made yet, has never been tested either and is NOT available to anyone because it's never been made yet).

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#740

Post by 019341097 »

disneygibson wrote: post #353

Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.

Our new frontier is trying not to overload our medical system to capacity by trusting science and being proactive and not selfish. We’re failing miserably.
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