I really feel it should be a much tighter number like 20 employees.
OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
701–710 of 1001 posts
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#702Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are absolutely enormous anti-smoking adversing and education campaigns. Cigarettes are mandated by law to have very specific packaging that loudly lists the risk of death. Large taxes are placed on them. In a great many places you are not allowed to smoke in public. Smokers have higher health insurance premiums and cannot access certain kinds of medical care like various organ transplants. Selling a cigarette t…
The could save the lives of 500,000 per year if they just forbid the sale. Why do you suppose the 500,000 that die from smoking and the 500,000 that die from COVID are treated differently?
Honestly? Because the cigarette industry is very large and employs a lot people, particularly lobbyists.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#703Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is asking that you get the vaccine. Go buy 50 acres and subsistence farm by yourself. Or do you mean you'd still want to clog up a hospital bed for two months if you get sick. Because I'm pretty sure that impacts everyone.
This argument implies that we should start mandating mandatory weight loss for the obese. The vaccine is about protecting other people, not hospital space.
Apples and oranges, and nothing is implied.
Obesity is not highly contagious. Obesity can't mutate easily.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#704Recent and related: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28472856 - Sept 2021 (262 comments) The titles are emphasizing two different things, but it's the same announcement.
Aren't both of these titles editorialised and against guidelines? The original title of the page is: "Path out of the Pandemic, President Biden's COVID-19 Action Plan", shouldn't that, or a derivative have been used instead?
The subtleties of the title domain are a hell of a rabbit hole, but in the case of the current page, I'd argue that the original title would be misleading at the top of an HN thread. Corporate press releases are often that way- see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#705I was commenting to a critical comment that was, in my opinion, controversial but acceptable. I don't know who flagged it and why, and it's now disappeared. Please, please, please: I'm the most provax person out there, but limiting the contrary voices won't lead this conversation anywhere constructive. The comment was saying the the policies against Covid so far were aimed at the distruction of normal. Here's what I…
>> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making. This is exactly what every person following the religion of scientism was saying when we were spraying kids with DDT, while those in touch with their intuition and insticts knew better.
Sounds pretty much like a fallacy to me.
It is a different time and different age. The stats about mortality from covid and from vaccines are quite different and easily accessible.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#706Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.
I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…
> I'm going to do everything I can to not let it
And until yesterday, that was entirely your choice! Unfortunately, as of today, it isn't any more.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#707Earlier quoted context omitted.
- Acquired immunity fades with time - You aren't required to get the vaccine, you can undergo weekly testing instead
So far vaccine immunity fades with time as well. The Pfizer Gang have experienced that already at 6mo or so, but Moderna protection has faded much more slowly.
I'd rather get the vaccine multiple times than to be infected multiple times. I don't understand why this is controversial.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#708Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the US, all 50 states have some type of mandatory vaccination for public schools ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_Unit... ). Most, but not all, allow religious or similar exemptions; some (including California) only allow medical exemptions. I think your point--which is spot-on--is that a lot of the outraged reactions appear to be from people who are unaware (or unwilling to acknowledge) t…
This is a bit different. First, the type of vaccine is different - the COVID vaccines don't stop you from getting COVID or -- crucially -- transmitting it to others, whereas the ones that school children require to get do so. Second, two of the three available are still under EUA, and the one that is approved is of a new type of vaccine that became approved through a very unconventional route, which has some folks ca…
Well, this also has easy alternatives: the OSHA rules allow testing as an alternative. They do not mandate vaccination.
To your other point, the vaccines do reduce transmission, as far as I can tell (e.g. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests...).
Now, to be perfectly serious, I do think that any efforts at compulsory--or, as in this case, incentivized, since testing remains an alternative--medical measures exist in a tension between the utilitarian and the libertarian point of view. We should certainly be cautious about mandating any medical procedure, and do our best to preserve alternatives (like testing, or mask wearing, or by limiting mandates to as narrow a scenario as necessary).
But I don't think the debate is helped by getting the facts wrong.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#709Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there's some great benefit the government / other interests are getting out of this ETS Pharma is gonna be making some good money out of COVID, no? The amount of tests that have been produced, plus the amount of vaccines being used are certainly not free.
They would be making a lot more money without the vaccines.
How's that?
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#710Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.
Coronavirus is not influenza. 600-800 thousand deaths in the US so far makes "fairly bad" seem like a bit of an understatement.