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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#561

Post by pbaka »

tolmasky wrote: post #493
motohagiography wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advised acquaintence in a PR company and reporters at beginning of this that they should "find" stories that the wealthy and celebrities were flying to countries where they could jump the queue for vaccination if they wanted to get more uptake. Response was government had other plans. Given my previous work in digital identity, I was getting inquiries from vaccine passport companies in the summer of last year. This w…

Where are these magic passports then? You keep talking about these high tech passports but my vaccination card is basically a piece of toilet paper with 2 stickers on it (that you can easily buy off Ebay by the way) and the nurse telling me "don't lose that!"

Here's what the "conspiracy" (1) sounds like :

What the system does right now :

- Everybody nation has an electronic record/QR code + "vaccine" passport

- They all use the same data exchange standard

- They are then interconnected for verification purposes when people travel. Where people who are against it fear it'll lead :

- They need to be connected to classical biometric ID's (passports, cards) to check for fakes - You now have a de facto standardised worldwide ID / Health data system

- You can now bolt a system to control movement of people (Canada is doing this right now)

- You can bolt on it a worldwide financial credit system

- You can bolt on it a worldwide social credit system

- You can now slowly erase nations state and replace them with services issued by global corporate operators.

Result : Global crypto-fascist corporatist state, next to Russia, China, India, and a few others.

(1) Calling it a conspiracy is a misnomer, as it's been widely published in public prospective policy documents by various large NGO's and think tanks, such as the Global Redesign Plan 2010 by the WEF (now rebranded Grand Reset). Various "Stakeholder capitalism" proposals by other large ones, etc. It's not a consparicy also because a lot of random people know about it and think it's a good thing. It's rather a set of policies a lot of powerful people want to see implemented

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#562

Post by betterunix2 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #539
betterunix2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, but the fact is that the president's goal is to get everyone who can receive the vaccine to be vaccinated. He lacks the authority to issue a simple vaccine mandate for everyone and is just doing what he does have the authority to do. The vaccine is not just about workplace safety and people who work from home should still get the shot.

I call this "late fee" logic. Often times an apartment will want to charge $X for rent but only charges $Y. They make up the difference by imposing fees and other restrictions so by the end you are basically at $X. I hate these policies because I hate people lying to me. Cut the shit with these late fees and just raise the damn rent. Likewise, if the goal is to vaccinate the entire country, don't try to beat around t…

The president does not have the legal authority to make such a general mandate. Congress might be able to do so, but congress works slowly and this needs to happen as soon as possible.

Like it or not, that is the system we have in the US.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#563

Post by slenk »

leesalminen wrote: post #468
drewg123 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize that, but you're probably right. The point I was trying to make is that neither I, nor my roommate (the only other patient I've had a conversation with) realized exactly how bad of shape the hospitals were in until we showed up at the ER and experienced it in person. The relentless media coverage is easy to tune out after a while, but actually experiencing the effects of a COVID surge personally brin…

Did you go to an emergency room in 2019, by chance? Waiting many hours to be admitted has been the norm in American healthcare for a very long time.

People lining the hallways waiting is not the norm in American healthcare

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#564

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

disneygibson wrote: post #479
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in most such trade-offs, the "cost to freedom" and "infringing of rights", to the extent they actually exist, factor into the cost/benefit decision of whether or not to ultimately go through with the mandate since everybody has their own opinion on where that balance is, there will always be individuals unhappy with what decision makers decide

No, that isn’t how rights work. They are guarantees that cannot be violated, no matter how democratically popular they are.

aside from the trade-off discussion above, it looks like you also have opinions about the constitutionality of this move

it is, of course, totally okay to have an opinion on that, but an opinion does not necessarily grant decision power, or even veto power, so ultimately you aren't the one who gets to decide what constitutes a right, and you aren't the one who gets to decide what constitutes a violation or an infringement of a right

I'm not trying to slam you here, because I am also not the one who gets to decide that -- I'm just one of hundreds of millions of Americans, the majority of which do not have a problem with this move

now, of course, if someone/you believes this move is an unconstitutional violation of rights, they/you can bring it to SCOTUS, who will let them/you know if they/you are right

and if SCOTUS does ultimately say that this specific mandate is unconstitutional, then of course I agree with you that such a decision should be respected unless and until We The People change the constitution, which would be okay, too

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#565

Post by jonahbenton »

disneygibson wrote: post #418
robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

You really think those death numbers are accurate? There are a ton of incentives present (read: federal $$$) for hospitals and others to exaggerate death counts and case numbers.

It sounds like you don't have any idea how the reporting here actually works.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#566

Post by dragonwriter »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #462
Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

Smoking kills 500,000 people per year in the US - which is only slightly less then COVID at current rates - I don't see anyone rushing to shut that down. Heart disease kills 650,000 per year, but there is still a McDonalds and Taco Bell on every corner.

> Smoking kills 500,000 people per year in the US

And federal law, state law, and often employer policies restrict exposing other people to your smoking in the workplace

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#567

Post by unanswered »

zhdc1 wrote: post #453
camillomiller wrote: post #378

I was commenting to a critical comment that was, in my opinion, controversial but acceptable. I don't know who flagged it and why, and it's now disappeared. Please, please, please: I'm the most provax person out there, but limiting the contrary voices won't lead this conversation anywhere constructive. The comment was saying the the policies against Covid so far were aimed at the distruction of normal. Here's what I…

> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making The worst part is that the data on almost every part of the pandemic is freely available online and updated daily. For instance, the odds of getting myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine is something like 1:125000. This is significantly less than the risk of child having a s…

Your numbers are being used to lie: You only have to get the MMR vaccine once. But you'll have to get the covid vaccines over and over and over. Just four covid jabs would make these events equally likely. But it's most likely that more than four will be required.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#568

Post by slenk »

a_conservative wrote: post #540
burntwater wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…

And what about unknown long-haul effects from newly developed vaccines? Are we permitted to be concerned about those?

At this point, long term side effects would be known about: "History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they do occur, they usually happen within the first two months"

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#569

Post by disneygibson »

jonahbenton wrote: post #565
disneygibson wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think those death numbers are accurate? There are a ton of incentives present (read: federal $$$) for hospitals and others to exaggerate death counts and case numbers.

It sounds like you don't have any idea how the reporting here actually works.

Please, enlighten me.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#570

Post by md_ »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #557
md_ wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm just willing to live dangerously. Lots of folks are just too coddled and unwilling to take a risk, even for the greater good. Back in the good old days, we were really willing to take risks--to cross oceans, even, as the op wrote--to do new things that could benefit our fellow human beings. Now it's all about "Oh no, this is a novel therapy that might infinitesimally increase my personal risk". Really kin…

>Lots of folks are just too coddled and unwilling to take a risk, even for the greater good. I'm not sure how you arrived here from my comment. If I was willing to dox myself you'd see that I have probably taken more risks for 'the greater good'™ than you or even most folks on this site. But those days are over, and this whole situation is setting off all of my finely tuned alarm bells. You should spend less time ste…

> I'm not sure how you arrived here from my comment. If I was willing to dox myself you'd see that I have probably taken more risks for 'the greater good'™ than you or even most folks on this site. But those days are over, and this whole situation is setting off all of my finely tuned alarm bells.

Thank you for your service.

In comparison, it seems to me the least I can do is get vaccinated, which is a tiny risk compared to the great deeds you have done.

You've inspired me, sir.

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