Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 1001 posts

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#531

Post by ctrlp »

mdale wrote: post #308
ctrlp wrote: post #203

Whether or not you agree if there is legal authority for mandates for this vaccine or this pandemic, where does it end? The trajectory we're on is for all people to be monitored by the State for compliance with the vaccine programs. Israel is already saying 4 shots (and more) will required [0] to participate in that society. Australia, New Zealand, and Canada are quasi-police states [1] and will probably mandate vacc…

Maximizing life is always in friction with social entropy. But too authoritarian is not fun either. New normals are normal. Vaccine mandates seem worthwhile from the current vantage point. I guess I would look at what is actually practically limiting you living your best life; avoid too much extrapolation on the rapid societal changes that are certainly not limited to covid vaccine mandates. Our techno-capitalist-oli…

This above-it-all zen stance holds little value for me. I hear a voice saying "Authoritarianism harshes my mellow, man". It reminds me of Nietzsche's "Blessed are the sleepy ones: for they shall soon drop off."

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#532

Post by disneygibson »

boplicity wrote: post #525
disneygibson wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think most people have an issue with voluntary vaccination. The problem is when nefarious actors use the situation to create a surveillance state, social credit system, and then exclude people from doing simple human things like eating at a restaurant. Australia is the future of the Western world.

> Surveillance state If that exists, it existed before COVID, and vaccinations against COVID certainly haven't changed that. > Social credit system Are you referring to mandates? These have been a thing, in the U.S., for many decades > exclude people from doing simple human things Vaccine mandates have excluded people from things far more important than restaurants, such as education, for many decades. This is not ne…

Most of the new things didn’t exist before. This is…basic information.

Even if they did, it’s pretty obvious that they have been dramatically increased in the last 18 months.

You seem extremely uninformed.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#533

Post by boplicity »

mfer wrote: post #429
robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Should we have freedom to harm others?

Sometimes?

Where we draw that line is very important, for sure.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#534

Post by zibzab »

disneygibson wrote: post #494
robmccoll wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Based on my traumatized friends that work in ERs in a few different states and the people I know who have died, I would say that it is much more reasonable to believe that those numbers are close to accurate than to suspect a large scale conspiracy, but I guess the world is less interesting and more depressing when you consider the likely reality over shadowy intrigue.

Conspiracy implies organization. There is no need for a conspiracy, simply the collective sum of individual selfish choices.

This whole mess is about selfish choices, just not the one you are thinking of.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#535

Post by mfer »

plainnoodles wrote: post #463
mfer wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates. But as-is, normal people who took precautions to get vaccinated are being hurt by anti-vaxxers when they get an unrelated illness or injury (car wreck, infection, etc) and then suffer worse…

>As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates.

This depends on where you're at. Where I live we currently are not near capacity in hospitals or ICUs. There isn't an issue and we are not near one.

Should so many be mandated or highly pushed to get vaccinated because of a few hot spots that affect a small part of the population? This is a question I've heard.

Note, there is a difference between believing (or knowing) the positive effects of vaccines, being a proponent, and getting one yourself.

This is about forcing others against their will do to something. I fear this will come back to bite our nation in the future. Both in terms of the willingness to force people and the repercussions that will come from it.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#536

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #390
guscost wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A yearly combination COVID and influenza shot will be the next mandate - at least in the fascist shitholes that are still subject to these rules.

When this all started and the stats for influenza deaths came out (usually as a poor attempt to downplay the seriousness of COVID) I was shocked at my own ignorance as to the effect of influenza. I'd previously tried to but been inconsistent in getting my flu shot, but now that I understand the human cost that's changed for me. It amazes me that people would be hesitant to get it and that there'd even be need to mand…

I've said this in another thread, but many I've talked to who don't want the vaccine are hesitant because of the accelerated timeline. A typical vaccine goes through 3 phases of clinical trials, with phase 1 lasting 1-10 years, phase 2 lasting 2-3 years, and phase 3 lasting 2-4 years.

That means you have anywhere from 5 to 17 years worth of data to look at and determine if there are long-term effects.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#538

Post by Zambyte »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #490
md_ wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. I agree. Lots of folks afraid to take a shot that's been well-studied and given to millions and is, in all probability, quite safe. ;) I chalk it up to the youth, who are selfish and only able to think about themselves and their Friendster ranks and how many YouTubes they have on the FaceSpace.

>Lots of folks afraid to take a shot that's been well-studied and given to millions and is, in all probability, quite safe. ;) That's one way to describe it. Another less charitable way to describe it: a novel gene therapy being deployed by organizations with a long history of experimenting on the people they were meant to protect. Pfizer and J&J got the two biggest fines ever handed out by the US government, and mod…

> a novel gene therapy

I recommend a 7th grade biology class. mRNA does not touch genes at all. Let alone modify them.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#539

Post by _fat_santa »

betterunix2 wrote: post #397
longthrow1 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, not an osha issue then.

That's right, but the fact is that the president's goal is to get everyone who can receive the vaccine to be vaccinated. He lacks the authority to issue a simple vaccine mandate for everyone and is just doing what he does have the authority to do. The vaccine is not just about workplace safety and people who work from home should still get the shot.

I call this "late fee" logic. Often times an apartment will want to charge $X for rent but only charges $Y. They make up the difference by imposing fees and other restrictions so by the end you are basically at $X. I hate these policies because I hate people lying to me. Cut the shit with these late fees and just raise the damn rent.

Likewise, if the goal is to vaccinate the entire country, don't try to beat around the bush and have OSHA do it, actually mandate it.

I'm not in favor of vaccine mandates, I just hate when poeple tell me to my face "Oh well we need to do this because of A, B and C" where everyone knows it's really "We're doing this because it will accomplish X, Y and Z"

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#540

Post by a_conservative »

burntwater wrote: post #474
disneygibson wrote: post #353

Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.

I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…

And what about unknown long-haul effects from newly developed vaccines? Are we permitted to be concerned about those?
Post reply on HN