OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#491

Post by disneygibson » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

tolmasky wrote: post #482

disneygibson wrote: post #353

Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.

The average lifespan for the period you are describing (say, 1492-ish since we're talking about sailing) was their mid-thirties (and probably lower for the people that actually got on those boats). So I think I like our strategy better. And it's not even about "but at least they truly lived !", their lives were miserable. It's a lot easier to "face the unknown" when the "known" is itself often religious persecution,…

That wasn’t the average lifespan of people who reached adulthood. Infant mortality was simply higher.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#492

Post by ctrlp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

TOMDM wrote: post #287

enkid wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exact argument could be used to push back against environmental standards, occupational safety standards, or drinking water standards. I don't want cholera outbreaks and I don't want the health system to collapse because of COVID.

If it weren't already standard, there is no way we'd be able to mandate seat belts today. EDIT: I'm pro seatbelt just in case that needed clarifying

Are you pro-motorcycle helmet as well? I don't ride but my understanding is there is disagreement about the relative protection of a helmet vs compromised visibility, yet most states in the US mandate helmets. Maybe some motorcyclists could clarify.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#493

Post by tolmasky » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #475

tolmasky wrote: post #350

The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that the right strategy would have been to make the vaccines initially cost $35,000 a dose, so that the outcry would have been that the Illuminati was making it impossible for the common man to get access to these life-saving drugs. Then, after months of argumentation, people could have had the victory of having the vaccines "liberated" and offered for free, such that gett…

Advised acquaintence in a PR company and reporters at beginning of this that they should "find" stories that the wealthy and celebrities were flying to countries where they could jump the queue for vaccination if they wanted to get more uptake. Response was government had other plans. Given my previous work in digital identity, I was getting inquiries from vaccine passport companies in the summer of last year. This w…

Where are these magic passports then? You keep talking about these high tech passports but my vaccination card is basically a piece of toilet paper with 2 stickers on it (that you can easily buy off Ebay by the way) and the nurse telling me "don't lose that!"

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#494

Post by disneygibson » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

robmccoll wrote: post #488

disneygibson wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think those death numbers are accurate? There are a ton of incentives present (read: federal $$$) for hospitals and others to exaggerate death counts and case numbers.

Yes. Based on my traumatized friends that work in ERs in a few different states and the people I know who have died, I would say that it is much more reasonable to believe that those numbers are close to accurate than to suspect a large scale conspiracy, but I guess the world is less interesting and more depressing when you consider the likely reality over shadowy intrigue.

Conspiracy implies organization. There is no need for a conspiracy, simply the collective sum of individual selfish choices.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#495

Post by motohagiography » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

bitcurious wrote: post #457

Prior to mandating anything, the US government should step up and ensure that every household has a free weekly delivery of rapid at-home tests. There is no reason for us to be individually flying blind whenever we get a sniffle or headache or other minor symptom. Additionally, there is evidence that a prior covid infection grants stronger immunity than at least the J&J vaccine, and 40%+ percent of the US population…

Just had a conversation about the J&J vaccine with someone who works at that company in another area and their throwaway comment was, "well, it's not really for our market because the single dose was aimed at non-western countries with weaker governments where the governments couldn't really get after people to do multiple doses."

It would have been chilling a year ago, now? Meh.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#496

Post by throwaway0a5e » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

TOMDM wrote: post #417

pseudo0 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an interesting read, check out the battle over seatbelt interlock devices. Optional seatbelts (with perhaps fines for non-use depending on the jurisdiction) was the compromise between none at all and cars not functioning without them being in use. https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance

That was a really interesting read, thank you I guess we have Elizabeth Dole to thank in part for near ubiquitous air bags and seatbelts. I hate to think how many would die every year without them.

These days? Few.

In the 1990s, more.

Except in the highest speed crashes frontal airbags are mostly redundant for belted in passengers (the first S in SRS is there for a reason), especially in this age of seatbelt pre-tensioners.

Side curtain airbags are far more helpful these days.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#497

Post by zxcvbn4038 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

Arguably this is probably more of a maneuver to distract from the epic fail withdrawal from Afghanistan.

They'll be fighting this out in the courts for years.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#498

Post by ecommerceguy » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

tibbydudeza wrote: post #120

Our largest healthcare provider has already mandated vaccines for their staff and insurance companies are now following suit because they got hammered with life insurance payouts for 2020 and first half of 2021. Waiting for retailers to announce this as well at some point.

>>insurance companies are now following suit because they got hammered with life insurance payouts for 2020 and first half of 2021.

Do you have a source for this comment? One thing is certain, more people are purchasing life insurance so if anything Covid has been a windfall for the carriers, for various reasons not just increased sales.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#499

Post by BurningFrog » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #294

BurningFrog wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "sterilizing" mean in this context?

It means that for people with an immune system that's functioning within the normal range, the vaccine entirely prevents infection (100% effectiveness). Population-wide effectiveness isn't 100%, but for most individuals it is.

Thanks. Now I know another term.

I'm a bit confused by the term "infection" here.

Let me split some hairs:

Vaccines work by teaching the immune system how to fight an intruding virus, so it doesn't have to spend days or weeks figuring it out while the virus destroys your body.

That means vaccinated people get viruses as often as unvaccinated, but defeat it much faster, usually before you notice any symptoms.

My confusion is that I would call the time my immune system spends fighting a virus in my body an "infection", but apparently that is not the established use.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#500

Post by oceanplexian » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

Aditya_Garg wrote: post #452

disneygibson wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think those death numbers are accurate? There are a ton of incentives present (read: federal $$$) for hospitals and others to exaggerate death counts and case numbers.

They can exaggerate but they can’t completely fabricate 650k deaths. What number do you think warrants this action? 500k? 300k?

Well, technically smoking kills ~400k a year and has been legal for over a century, so we could start there. We could get into heart disease and diabetes and the legality of unhealthy food if it’s about the raw numbers.