OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#461

Post by drewg123 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

SergeAx wrote: post #439

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

But working in a hospital requires vaccination now, isn't it? Or even was required by many medical facilities before current events?

I didn't realize that, but you're probably right.

The point I was trying to make is that neither I, nor my roommate (the only other patient I've had a conversation with) realized exactly how bad of shape the hospitals were in until we showed up at the ER and experienced it in person. The relentless media coverage is easy to tune out after a while, but actually experiencing the effects of a COVID surge personally brings it home. I'm not sure how else to suggest someone experience a hospital as a non-patient..

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#462

Post by zxcvbn4038 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

Smoking kills 500,000 people per year in the US - which is only slightly less then COVID at current rates - I don't see anyone rushing to shut that down.

Heart disease kills 650,000 per year, but there is still a McDonalds and Taco Bell on every corner.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#463

Post by plainnoodles » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #429

robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls.

As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates.

But as-is, normal people who took precautions to get vaccinated are being hurt by anti-vaxxers when they get an unrelated illness or injury (car wreck, infection, etc) and then suffer worse outcomes (including death) just because the ICU beds are full of people who could have literally just decided not to be in them (given how effective the vaccine is at preventing hospitalization).

Our society is far too interconnected for almost anything to not at least indirectly affect someone else, even if the first-order effects are well-limited to "just you".

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#464

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

People are dying from simple stuff while waiting for ICU beds, but the anti-vaxx crowd doesn't really care.

https://people.com/health/u-s-army-veteran-dies-of-treatable...

https://www.ky3.com/2021/08/27/man-dies-waiting-icu-bed-fami...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#465

Post by UncleMeat » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #429

robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Vaccination provides clear social benefit by reducing infections, which limits spread of the virus and potential sources of mutation. It also limits the number of hospital resources that must be allocated to covid patients, freeing up those resources to aid others who are in need of medical care.

In the same way, driving while drunk is tremendously dangerous to yourself but is also a danger to others.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#466

Post by disneygibson » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

Aditya_Garg wrote: post #452

disneygibson wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think those death numbers are accurate? There are a ton of incentives present (read: federal $$$) for hospitals and others to exaggerate death counts and case numbers.

They can exaggerate but they can’t completely fabricate 650k deaths. What number do you think warrants this action? 500k? 300k?

What do you mean by this action, specifically? Everything that has been done since March 2020?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#467

Post by md_ » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #432

md_ wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, all 50 states have some type of mandatory vaccination for public schools ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_Unit... ). Most, but not all, allow religious or similar exemptions; some (including California) only allow medical exemptions. I think your point--which is spot-on--is that a lot of the outraged reactions appear to be from people who are unaware (or unwilling to acknowledge) t…

It's also possible that the dissenters are aware and knowledgeable of the history of compulsory vaccines. The question in their minds might be how society determines which vaccines should fall into that mandatory category and what level of force the government and others should use to enforce it. For example, should flu vaccines be mandatory to attend school? Historically they have not been in any large degree (to my…

I don't see the necessary nuance for this debate to be meaningful. As a case in point: the OSHA regulations are for vaccination _or_ weekly testing.

There's probably a reasonable debate to be had about requiring people to disclose vaccination status (but, again, significant precedent)--but I do think the hysterical reactions sound a bit funny when viewed as a reaction to being forced to spit into a cup once a week.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#468

Post by leesalminen » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #461

SergeAx wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But working in a hospital requires vaccination now, isn't it? Or even was required by many medical facilities before current events?

I didn't realize that, but you're probably right. The point I was trying to make is that neither I, nor my roommate (the only other patient I've had a conversation with) realized exactly how bad of shape the hospitals were in until we showed up at the ER and experienced it in person. The relentless media coverage is easy to tune out after a while, but actually experiencing the effects of a COVID surge personally brin…

Did you go to an emergency room in 2019, by chance? Waiting many hours to be admitted has been the norm in American healthcare for a very long time.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#469

Post by europeancitizen » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

marexv wrote: post #358

josho wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't spoken to an anti-vaxxer yet. Those that I've seen in the media have been completely irrational (5g/bill gates theories). So, I'm looking forward to learning from a rational person what their motivations are. What are your reasons to refuse a vaccine? Weren't you vaccinated as a child for polio & chicken pox? Why is this vaccine a hill to die on? Thanks.

Those vaccines were properly tested. These vaccines were developed hastily. In Europe they are still treated as test vaccines, so you have to sign a paper and take the full responsibility for any side effects. I've gotten this far without infection although I was exposed. I have decided I just don't wan't to risk it. Also I am prepared to give up my access to ICU if that is what it takes for gov to leave me alone, as…

> In Europe they are still treated as test vaccines, so you have to sign a paper and take the full responsibility for any side effects.

This is not true. They got emergency authorization, but had to go through the same test phases as with normal authorization and will eventually get full authorization. This is not really different than in the USA and does not make it a 'test vaccine'.

Also I was vaccinated in the EU and I did not have to sign any papers or 'take full responsibility for any side effects' in any way, nor did anyone else I know that was vaccinated in the EU. This may be the case in your country (I'd be interested to know which country that is), but it is certainly not a EU wide requirement.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#470

Post by TOMDM » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #391

bserge wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's go even further and mandate psychological and physical tests, to make sure there are fewer deaths. You never know what goes through someone's head or whether a previous injury will lead to an accident. I'm only half joking, this could actually help me :D

You know what kills more than COVID? Sugar which causes cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. If we're going to go after COVID for the havoc it causes, there's a long list of similar issues that could be tackled with the same type of mandate. I don't look forward to our health-police state we apparently decided was a great idea. Well we didn't decide, because that would have required congress to pass a law. This was j…

If people could take a shot or two that massively reduces the risk of sugar induced cancer, diabetes and heart disease they'd be fools not to take it.