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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#561

Post by finder83 »

threatofrain wrote: post #553
finder83 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there lies the issue with propping up the demand side of the equation with unlimited money from the government rather than regulating the supply side with affordable charges.

I don't think you can use ordinary market dynamics to regulate healthcare. During an emergency you should be driving to the closest hospital, not the most affordable one. And during an emergency you really have no insight as to how much of an emergency you have on your hands. Healthcare can essentially demand your entire worth. The market also has not even provided sufficient incentive for hospitals to announce their…

That's kind of my point actually. I do think hospitals should publish their rates and so be forced to compete, but the government should also be regulating the price of services, overhead, and medicines for everyone instead of just medicare/medicaid patients. It's such an essential service that going to a hospital shouldn't be a decision to ruin you for life or not financially while hospital administrators, pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, and lawyers are raking in millions or billions. Instead, there should be some guarantee that you are getting "fair" rates.

I'm of the personal political opinion that almost always when the government steps in to fund things on the demand side of the market equation it leads to massive growth in costs and burden for consumers. Universities are another great example of this. If they do step in, they also have to regulate the supply side as the free market is effectively broken at that point, and people who...say want to pay their own bills or for their own education by working or don't qualify for whatever government program is helping others, are screwed by the system.

Government intervention always seems to rake money into companies' pockets rather than helping consumers and tax payers.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#562

Post by edmundsauto »

SailingSperm wrote: post #552
VBprogrammer wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you but if the 12 billion or so COVID vaccine doses issued world wide don't convince you that the vaccine is statistically safe, at least as safe as something as common as paracetamol or aspirin, then what amount of testing would convince you?

The 12 billion or so COVID vaccine doses given also only have a history of ~2 years. If the adverse effects of it were say for instance, minor cardiac damage that resulted in no acute symptoms, but instead an overall reduction in life expectancy by 5 years, the costs of such would not be known for some time. Another side of this is the possible cumulative effects of ongoing covid vaccination boosters that have no lon…

The risk of taking action was compared against the risk of not taking action. I imagine most scientists would have loved to have developed this vaccine 10+ years ago and done long term studies, but that wasn’t an option.

It may have been influenced by the bias for action, but the trade off was the death and disruption we saw in 2020-21, compared to a future risk that scientists projected as minimal.

It still seems like a solid decision to me. But if this research shows that millions die from increased myocarditis rates, I think it would have been a bad outcome. Still not sure if that would influence my perception to the process.

Making decisions under uncertainty is hard.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#563

Post by [deleted] »

finder83 wrote: post #561
threatofrain wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can use ordinary market dynamics to regulate healthcare. During an emergency you should be driving to the closest hospital, not the most affordable one. And during an emergency you really have no insight as to how much of an emergency you have on your hands. Healthcare can essentially demand your entire worth. The market also has not even provided sufficient incentive for hospitals to announce their…

That's kind of my point actually. I do think hospitals should publish their rates and so be forced to compete, but the government should also be regulating the price of services, overhead, and medicines for everyone instead of just medicare/medicaid patients. It's such an essential service that going to a hospital shouldn't be a decision to ruin you for life or not financially while hospital administrators, pharmaceu…

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#564

Post by peteradio »

mindslight wrote: post #465
beebmam wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. People with insurance have zero idea how much medical care actually costs because it's really hard to keep up with all the health insurance documents one receives. Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast. (I was, twice, circa 2010. I was unemployed and uninsured)

> Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast Actually no, you still won't. Because the hospitals send out fraudulently inflated/overitemized bills to help their negotiating positions. To know how much medical care actually costs, you need to have "insurance" and read through the itemized bills and explanations of benefits. The top line large number is the fraudulent amount that has no basis…

> Also it bears repeating, never pay a medical bill unless you're damn sure you're responsible for the amount [0]. Even if you have "insurance", often you'll get sent the fraudulent bill right away, and it will take a month or two for "insurance" to bother doing their job. Also billing departments have no problem blatantly lying to you about your (non) responsibility for the fraudulent bill, since it might get them more money.

In practice how do you do this? I've never got a medical bill that made complete sense to me and when I did argue it went around in circles for so many months that it was not worth my time so I just paid it.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#565

Post by listless »

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

We did not vaccinate our 3 teen boys. They all contracted COVID and recovered in 48 hours. I’m sorry to hear about your experience. The emotional strain from that was probably awful.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#566

Post by kube-system »

walterbell wrote: post #545
kube-system wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three of those are wrong in at least some circumstances. Several members of my family have been getting their mandatory flu shots for decades.

There's a sizable difference between: - informed consent at the time of signing an employment (e.g. military, medical) contract with known career conditions - new conditions (mandates) being added to existing labor contracts, while there is active litigation on the purpose and legality of those conditions, and re-definition of legal language (e.g. CDC's 2021 redefinition of "vaccine") used in mandates

There are also many places in the US where influenza shots aren't contractual, they're law, particularly for those in schools, long-term care facilities, and healthcare settings. And vaccine mandates have hundreds of years of precedent in the US. It ain't the mandates that are new, it's the political climate.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#567

Post by robomartin »

bsder wrote: post #523
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it. We have no recourse whatsoever for this incident and any future care requirements. Calling this out as bullshit. Show me a reference. You can get a PLATINUM plan on the California exchanges for less than that for a family--and your co-pay for everything will be under $250. I would also like to point out that "myocarditis" qualifies…

> Calling this out as bullshit. Show me a reference.

You mean, like this:

https://i.imgur.com/iIz30xw.png

Take note of the rating.

The fact that they are labeled "Platinum" is nice marketing. We've had family members and friends on some of these plans, they are --and I am being kind-- not great.

The context shouldn't be what's on the CA exchanges today. It should be what we and others had prior to being forced into ACA. Which was fantastic insurance for the entire family for $650 per month. Our deductibles were half what they are today and we had all the catastrophic stuff just the same. I assure you that, with my wife being a doctor, we did not have shit insurance.

What should horrify everyone is that, today, in the US, a family has to spend $30K per year for health insurance. That's just insane.

Before you say "we don't". If you get your insurance through your employer you should ask them how much they are spending for your insurance. Unless they got you on a shit program, they are likely spending $20K to $30K on you. This is money that is not available to give you a raise. In other words, you are still suffering the consequences of the ACA scam, you just don't know it.

Oh, yes, and don't get me started on the Presidential promise that families would save $2,500 per year, keep their doctors, etc. We went from $7,800 per year to $27,600 per year. More than that actually. Due to the high deductibles we have to spend thousands of dollars per year before any of it actually kicks in. I haven't done the math at this point. I would not be surprised if we've reached $40K.

Again, no problem helping others. That doesn't mean robbing families of tens of thousands of dollars per year. That's fucking criminal.

I know many don't feel this way. That's only so because they have never been on the receiving end of something like this. We love to talk about the concept of "fair share". Well, tripling health insurance costs isn't anywhere close to "fair share", it's government-enforced theft under false promises.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#568

Post by nomel »

nomel wrote: post #245
yonaguska wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could find it, but google is insistent on working against me here, but I remember reading from one of Pfizer's data dumps that children in the vaccinated group of their studies were at an increased risk of other respiratory infections compared to the control group. Anecdotally, some, not all, but some of my triple vaccinated friends are getting sick constantly and they've said that every time they catch covi…

> wish I could find it, but google is insistent on working against me here Bing/DuckDuckGo go is much better for anything with a negative vaccine sentiment. I stopped using Google altogether, because of the pandemic, after repeatedly watching news articles and research papers disappear from search results. I want a list, not a guided experience.

It's not required that this happened for nefarious reasons. My naive assumption was that it was a casualty of trying to downrank misinformation. The early misinformation nets, around COVID, were unnecessarily wide, catching objective truth. Searching now, it looks like things have improved.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#569

Post by ars »

ceejayoz wrote: post #260
Rebelgecko wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it sounds like Obamacare did cover the vast majority of the cost?

Yes. People just don't understand what their plan's deductibles mean, and the protections the ACA offers. The parent poster likely benefits from the following items on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act : > Annual and lifetime coverage caps on essential benefits were banned. > Insurers are forbidden from dropping policyholders when they become ill. > All policies must provide an annual maximum out-of-p…

The issue is that deductibles used to be 1/10 as much before the ACA. And you had the option to buy "emergency only" coverage, which had a high deductible, but a much cheaper premium.

These days, because of the ACA all plans are "emergency only", except without the lower premium.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#570

Post by polartx »

Server6 wrote: post #83
throwaway5959 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still glad I took my chances with the vaccine: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/brie...

I watched one of my best friends choke on his own lungs and die of COVID last year. He'd be alive if he had gotten the vaccine.

>He'd be alive if he had gotten the vaccine.

Sorry for your loss, but there’s no way you could know that. The very same logic you would require you to espouse the belief that any person who received a vaccine and died, died because the vaccine.

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