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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#251
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. With the exception of a very narrow age range of young men, the COVID vaccine is protective against heart disease alone, even ignoring all other outcomes.

Young men on the other hand appear to face the biggest increase in COVID related heart attacks according to https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/covid-19-surges-linked... , so perhaps the vaccine remains their best option.

Indeed. In that group, it's merely...murky...rather than "This is definitively a bad idea".

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people losing their jobs for not taking an experimental medical product was just a persuasion game? What?

Yes, "do this or you're fired" is a coercive tactic. People who are pro-vaccine want everyone to get the vaccine. They believe it is a matter of life or death (frankly, I agree with them, but I am trying to present this neutrally). So that level of coercion, "fear losing your job if you don't do this" is exactly what I'm talking about. If people could be persuaded to do things that are in their interest via rational…

> it wouldn't be necessary to do that kind of coercion

This is Marxist-level thinking.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it Can you expand on this please? I find it extremely hard to understand how an ACA-compliant health care plan could "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis. Unless you're on a high-deductible plan and the entire stay was less than your deductible?

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

So it sounds like Obamacare did cover the vast majority of the cost?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#254

Seems like this should have been a requirement before any emergency use authorization, and certainly before any mandates. The fact that this research is just now being done ought to be enough to immediately revoke the FDA emergency use authorizations and pull the product from the shelves. The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. The erosion of trust in the institutions that are suppo…

No, that gets it totally backwards. The miniscule risks of the vaccine are blown out of proportion by bad reporting and people reading the statistics wrong.

In converse: we should have skipped phase 3 trials (effectivity) and should have started vaccination after safety was approved.

If anything the vaccination campaign has shown that sometimes acting fast can be tremendously helpful.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

People I know are getting COVID in the Bay Area -- multiple weeks sick (I can count at least 6 -- in the moment -- for the span of middle of October until now). We are still in the pandemic. The problem is it has to stop everywhere for us to get complacent. Especially, given that everyone wants to travel -- and travel abroad. Pandemic is here. Nothing is over. We are distracted with other things. Things are "good" in…

It is endemic not pandemic anymore.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range of 5-16x depending on age group and vaccinated or vaccinated+boosted. There are obviously confounding variables (do vaccinated people behave differently? are healthier people the ones getting the vaccines?) but I would argue that those numbers are a pretty big W for vaccines as far…

>If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range 5-16x I am not questioning that, but couldn't that 5-16x be contributed to the latest strains being far less deadly that the first few strains, much better and accessible treatments (monoclonal antibodies), safer hospital practices (not putting people on ventilators so quickly/easily), etc.? How can we be so sure that the majority o…

Because that rate of reduction is in comparison to the "control" group of unvaccinated people who are exposed to the same strains and have access to all the same treatments and hospital practices

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#257
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

The risk from myocarditis from getting Covid-19 is higher than getting it from the vaccine. The decision to vaccinate even young people made sense during the height of the pandemic and it doesn't make so much sense now anymore.

Where did you get that data?

According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vaccination.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#258
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like, in the absence of assurance of long-term safety, you would recommend the vaccine for at-risk groups only. It's known now that the risk to young people (under 19) is minimal: IFR < 3/1,000,000. And that was during the much more dangerous early strain of Covid-19, not the ones circulating now. Yet here we are in 2022 with a recommendation from the CDC to vaccinate ages 5 and up, regardless of health…

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

It's not a case where no children die if everyone takes the vaccine and 1900 children die if nobody does. There are numerous other variables at play, each of which contains some unknowns and affects quality of life or even the continuity of it. I can't say that I know what the currently best course of action for children is, but the problem is far from black and white.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#259

I think that all this COVID stuff was everything opposite than using science, starting from the people, including government, taking of "trusting science". Science is not a religion, and we don't have to believe in it. Instead we need to be critic, conduct experiments, evaluate our thesis, put everything into discussion. Something we didn't, because you are a fool if you have doubts about vaccines, if you talk about…

Also classification of seriousness of side effects was kinda skewed, too. If you didn't read into details of studies, you'd think that claims like "serious side effects are rare", as something that is a meaningful input to your decisionmaking about getting vaccinated. But if it was defined as conditions requiring hospitalizations or urgent care, then there are other very comon side effects that don't require it and can still upend your life if they last long time.

Being unable to work properly for longish time (say months to a year), without needing hospitalization is quite serious to anyone in working age. There was no way to judge how long particular side effects can last (and likelihoods) from vaccine studies, because data for judging this were not published, despite for sure being available from the original trials to the researchers.

There's apparently a lot of research about how to push people to vaccinate and about vaccination hessitancy, though. :) But providing some useful data about side effects, like how likely they'll last 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months for a vaccination that was intended to quickly give to almost everyone... No, can't have that. That was almost impossible to find. And if you did find something, it was some independent research with small sample size.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

So it sounds like Obamacare did cover the vast majority of the cost?

Yes. People just don't understand what their plan's deductibles mean, and the protections the ACA offers.

The parent poster likely benefits from the following items on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act:

> Annual and lifetime coverage caps on essential benefits were banned.

> Insurers are forbidden from dropping policyholders when they become ill.

> All policies must provide an annual maximum out-of-pocket (MOOP) payment cap for an individual's or family's medical expenses (excluding premiums). After the MOOP payment is reached, all remaining costs must be paid by the insurer.

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