NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#541

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

ok123456 wrote: post #416

tajustice wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ID laws are inherently racist, and have been leveraged by white supremacists for decades to keep POC from enjoying the rights and privileges they're guaranteed under the law. Businesses requiring vaccination IDs are de facto discriminating against POCs and other minorities because POCs and minorities are less likely to have ID, and less likely to be vaccinated.

The coronavirus doesn't discriminate. Edit: Can't reply to the child since it's dead, but for the record, I got my covid vaccinations at an AME church (i.e., black) back in April. Edit 2: >Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines. No you didn't. > The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#542

Post by heavyset_go » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #129

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, thanks to the very high vaccination rate amongst the vulnerable population

The COVID hospitalization rate in NYC has doubled since the beginning of July, and it has a steep positive rate of change. On its current trajectory, COVID hospitalizations will continue to increase, and sharply.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#543

Post by notJim » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #347

mcguire wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant . Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step. Pointing out that children must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm children in order to participate in public education is true, but irrelevant to the question. Pointing out that we require certain vaccinations of immigrants is true, but irrelevant to the question. (Not for noth…

I think it's a practical thing. We don't require vaccination for restaurants, but because vaccination is required at schools, practically you can assume that most people are vaccinated. And for many of these illnesses, we have attained herd immunity (although antivaxers are chipping away at that.)

We should want to be in the same world for COVID. I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should have to risk getting COVID when there is a perfectly safe, free vaccine, that if delivered to enough of the population, will allow us to achieve herd immunity. The risks of long COVID are real. You're either imposing a very safe vaccine on people, or a somewhat dangerous illness on them, it seems very obvious the best option is to impose the vaccine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#544

Post by stickfigure » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #168

stickfigure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> every couple of years for the rest of my life.

That ship has sailed? Covid is not going away, ever. It's politically impossible to mandate 100% vaccination, and even if you could, there's still animal reserves. The best case scenario is that covid becomes like the common cold, and you can mostly avoid it with occasional booster shots.

I wish everyone would get vaccinated too, but let's be realistic. How many years do you think you can keep up rules like "must show vaccination card to enter"? At what point does everyone, including vaccinated people, start ignoring them? Personally I think it's going to fail out of the gate, and I'm on team vax.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#545

Post by jhgb » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

dotcommand wrote: post #254

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Because it's highly tyrannical? Odd how cavalier you are about this. Nevermind that you have a right to privacy when it comes to health matters, this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere. Also, all tyrannies a born to "protect you". > Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the po…

> Because it's highly tyrannical?

I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea.

> this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere

Yes, because US car drivers don't already do that? And pretty much anyone in developed countries in the world.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#546

Post by notJim » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

preinheimer wrote: post #233

timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Completely false. There's several groups that might want the vaccine that can't get it. Including: children and the immuno compromised. 32 kids were hospitalized in one week in Alabama last month. A state with half the population of NYC. https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2021/07/infant-among-children...

I think immune compromised people can generally get the vaccine, but there are questions about how effective it is. Some have proposed they may need a 3rd dose.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#547

Post by brown9-2 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

dataflow wrote: post #417

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

The part that irks me about a vaccine mandate is it being imposed before FDA approval. The FDA isn't confident enough to approve the vaccine yet, yet other parts of the government are (effectively) saying they know better than the FDA? Is it really surprising that people hesitate when they see this? Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to injec…

> Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to inject it into your body anyway?

This isn’t what is happening - the scientists are encouraging you to get the vaccine too.

Full approval requires a lengthy amount of time because usually things are being tested outside of a crisis.

I think a lot of comments are missing that this is a public health crisis which has killed nearly 700,000 Americans. A crisis calls for rapid action.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#548

Post by biztos » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #412

What is the plan for undocumented workers? Especially in restaurants. Even if they managed to get vaccinated by providing valid "proof of age" documentation[1], they will not appear in the registries. And if anyone was skeptical and thought that the state might be lying about not tracking identity and immigration status, surely that identity information would likely be false. This is a significant, and likely a major…

In California you can get your shots without showing any ID, and in fact for my first shot nobody checked mine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#549

Post by jhgb » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #30

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

It's simple. If you're vaccinated you shouldn't care whether other people in the restaurant are. That's the point of vaccination after all. And if you're not vaccinated obviously you're not going to be in favor of this new mandate. The people who support policies like these are vaccin efficacy denialists, petty tyrants, and doomers of various sorts. And there are good reasons to not want to live in a "papers please"…

> If you're vaccinated you shouldn't care whether other people in the restaurant are. That's the point of vaccination after all.

That is actually not the point of vaccinations. The point of vaccinations is public health.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#550

Post by aplummer » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #438

rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away.

> >Some do not. This one does.

It's sad but we really need a way to flag covid misinformation like this on HN. There is absolutely no proof that covid disappears after a certain amount of time, this is obvious because only 2 years has passed since 2019. The evidence we have so far is that some people remain with long-term symptoms at least as far as until now.