NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#161

Post by asdff » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #150

tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

We could honestly probably save billions in healthcare costs if we mandated a yearly physical and cancer screening. It would lift our economy catching these costly diseases and health issues while they are still easily and cheaply treatable.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#162

Post by schrijver » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

trutannus wrote: post #123

polote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

> It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to be the one who are punished because the vaccination rate is not high enough. So far the data coming out of the EU has indicated that when passports and certificates were introduced, there was an uptick in vaccination the day the measure was introduced. Estonia, for i…

The Netherlands has seen willingness to vaccinate rise from around 60% at the start of the crisis to 87% right now, and part of this success is attributed to the fact that the government always made it clear that vaccination was not going to be mandatory, and testing would be an alternative.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#163

Post by afavour » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #139

afavour wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. > It might well lead to anger and violence (as similar moves have across Europe). Not really. There were some minor protests…

How could a family under 12 possibly know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated unless the restaurant only allows a single party to have a member under 12?

Sure, other kids are a risk, as they always are. Everything is a risk evaluation, even with a vaccine mandate if the restaurant has two kids at every table with little space between them then it might not be a good idea to go in. Doesn't invalidate the fact that it would be better if all the adults are vaccinated.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#164

Post by nickthemagicman » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

Where does the requirement for the individual to change their behavior to reduce the risk of misfortune for the collective stop?

I demand other people to stop driving because increases my chance of being hit as a pedestrian.

I demand that other people stop having sex because it increases the spread of HIV which increases my risk with every new sexual partner.

I demand that others be allowed to be held down by police and have a blood test forcefully performed on them, for DWIs, because it will reduce my risk of being in an accident with a drunk driver.

Merely existing and interacting with the world increases the risk of accidents to others so I demand everyone cease to exist!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#165

Post by bob33212 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #152

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#166

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#167

Post by CabSauce » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

I'm pretty tired of all this. If folks want don't want to get the vaccine, under the argument of personal responsibility, let them do what they want. However, if they willingly or negligently transmit covid, they should be civilly and maybe criminally liable. If they end up needing medical care, make them pay for it out of their pocket. Make them financially responsible for their decisions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#168

Post by Daishiman » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #91

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so.

I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this.

While vaccinated people are fairly safe, even with us all being vaccinated we are adding to the background risk of hospitalization the equivalent of several hard flu seasons. I've had a really bad flu where I felt I was dying, twice in my life. I do not look forward to having my body bearing that brunt every couple of years for the rest of my life.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#169

Post by timr » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

platz wrote: post #144

timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. For now...

Well then, by that logic, we can never let up on this. You never know what's going to happen in two weeks!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#170

Post by kook_throwaway » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

benmmurphy wrote: post #43

Surely this is a violation of civil rights law. The law is going to have a disparate impact on minority groups since there is a difference in vaccination rates between different racial groups. The law doesn't seem narrowly scoped to achieve a specific compelling government interest. People from the government seem to be claiming this is being used to incentivise vaccine uptake. If the government made the claim that t…

>there is a difference in vaccination rates between different racial groups

Considering that people of color have been the targets of medical experimentation under the guise of public health by both our government and the same drug makers peddling the vaccines (usually in other countries), this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.