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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#481

Post by jahewson »

blub wrote: post #448
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

There's the extinction method which is the most hardcore and there's also the Ferber method which has the parent periodically check in with the baby. Extinction is extreme, as one is basically abandoning the child to cry. They're scared, they don't know what's happening and they're alone. Sure, they're (probably?) not gonna suffer long-term damage, but it's just an asshole thing to do. In the book recommending this m…

It’s not suitable for new babies, that’s for sure. But if you’re closer to the 1yr mark then they’re not crying because they’re scared, they’re crying because they know exactly what’s happening and they want to party and not go through the effort of figuring out how to go to sleep, again.

Some kids are just nuts. Ours both were. We went from an hour-long party of rolling, chanting, screaming, head-butting the wall, pulling the hair of any nearby parent, multiple times a night, to... asleep in 10mins. It felt bad at first until we saw how much his mood improved in the daytime because he wasn’t exhausted.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#482

Post by sanderjd »

NovaJehovah wrote: post #462
spamizbad wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression you're equating sleep training with the old fashioned "cry it out" method. We loosely followed the Karp method and had very little crying and a very happy baby.

In my experience, "sleep training" is just a more palatable euphemism for "cry it out". My view is that however you slice it, you are conditioning the baby that no one will respond to its distress. I'm glad you feel it worked out well for you. I honestly hope it doesn't cause problems, because it's very widespread. Based on our reading of the available evidence, we weren't willing to take the risk. Our lives certainl…

Everything is trade-offs. Less consistent sleep (for both the baby and the parents) is also clearly problematic.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#483

Post by lotsofpulp »

ksd482 wrote: post #399
Aunche wrote: post #340

One thing that I find weird about the Western (perhaps just American) way of raising kids is that the retired population is surprisingly uninvolved in the raising of their grandchildren. It seems like an economic inefficiency when parents are spending so much money on childcare while old people are feeling increasingly lonely.

Good point. I am an Indian, raised in India, came to US at 19. I notice the same thing here. We have neighbors who are white and have their grandkids over every day. It is very refreshing to see. However, it is a rare thing to see at the same time. I have never seen other native born Americans talk about their grandkids or heard of them being involved in their upbringing. I am cautious of the stereotypes such as when…

Assuming people have a good relationship with their parents, they would want them to be involved in their children's lives.

The bigger issue, in my social circles at least, is that Americans don't live near the grandparents. The economic opportunities exist in a certain few areas, and either the parents aren't willing to take the economic/quality of life hit to leave near their grandparents, or the grandparents can't afford to come live near the grandkids. Especially in the "good school" district areas.

The best situation I've seen is from Everybody Loves Raymond, grandparents nearby, but still in a separate house. But few grandparents will be located in the same neighborhood as the kids. Typically, similar size/price houses are located near each other, and the more expensive homes in with access to better schools come with higher property taxes/maintenance, which older people might not want to pay.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#484

Post by alistairSH »

watwut wrote: post #317
brudgers wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, there aren't many kids who only do Scouting...it's an over-scheduling comorbidity. For kids who resist over-scheduling, scouting seems to be one of the first things to go...because den and pack meetings are by and for adults, they never make it to a troop. Or to put it another way, teenage apathy prevalence is probably pre-teen survivor bias.

The scouting, at least here, is very time consuming. It seems to want to be your whole lifestyle.

How so? When my son was in scouts, it was a weekly meeting, usually after dinner (to avoid sports). Plus one optional weekend activity (camping, etc) per month (and these usually slowed between Nov-Mar because fewer people want to camp when it's freezing and wet).

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#485

Post by LegitShady »

TomK32 wrote: post #73
LegitShady wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think poverty in britain or india mean the same thing.

Of course, poverty in Britain is something the Tories actually do want, whereas in India I'm sure every major party is fighting against poverty.

please leave your personal partisan politics at the door.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#486

Post by christiansakai »

benjohnson wrote: post #319
christiansakai wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

damn, this hits too close too home. I'm still so messed up after all those words. and I am 34 now. I forgot completely about the bruising as it never existed, but those words haunt me forever.

I know this is not the forum for it, but here's what helped for me: 1) Write every horrible event down in excruciating detail. For me that gave my mind the permission to forget/heal/move-in. 2) Explore the possibility that the abuser was abused themselves and that while that is not an excuse, it does make it more comprehensible. If you do find the a chain of abuse, then recognize that you have the wonderful opertunit…

Thank you for the recommendations, I think no matter how much I tried inner healing it just never works. It worked for a while but then it erupted again, as soon as, say my parents do something that I think is wrong, my anger erupted. I definitely have traumas. I don't have kids yet, but I think there's a chance I will continue this chain of abuse, though I will do my best not to.

Yeah, I talk to my wife, that's all. She's too nice, her family comes from a good background, I don't want to burden her by telling my family's story.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#487

Post by gamblor956 »

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.) This article calls it an ‘extreme’ practice.

Sleep training appears to be standard for all the parents I know, in the U.S. and otherwise. I think it's more likely that the author of the article has extreme views on parenting that they're tying to impose on others.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#488

Post by meowster »

watwut wrote: post #422
bluGill wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most actives do. Commitment is the way to win championships, so any one moment you are not practicing your sport is a chance to lose the award. That things can/should be fun is lost. Scouting is a bit better than sports, but they still want your life.

They don't. You can go to piano teacher once a week. You then train at home as a side hobby. You go to art lesson once or twice a week. You go to sport training 2-3 times a week and that can be it. There are plenty of clubs like that. They even have competitions one in a while - you won't be champion but you will compete against kids like you. There are also super competitive clubs, but huge amount of them is not lik…

That was not my experience with Scouting as a youth. My troop was around 30 kids. It was one 90 minute meeting a week, one weekend campout a month, an annual food drive, and an every-other-month selling consessions at the church bingo game as a fundraiser for about 2 hours.

Pretty much everything else can be done at summer camp (1 week a summer) or maybe a merit badge fair on a Saturday once a year.

Sure, you might have to keep a log for a month of your chores, or do a home improvement project for the Family Life merit badge, but it never felt like a time sink as a kid, and didn't occupy all my afternoons. I essentially never had "homework" from Scouts.

Maybe some troops are really gung-ho, but there are plenty of troops that aren't. Troops are not allowed to set requirements that aren't in the Scout Handbook, if they are, there's the district, the council, and ultimately the national office that can put a stop to it or revoke the unit's charter.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#489

Post by lifeplusplus »

coming from another country i can see clear difference in how child are raised in usa.

There as long as baby is with mom, fed on time, and kept clean. baby just grows up fine. few months are hectic but then their night time matches everyone else. Given there is afternoon nap.

eventually they are like 5 and start playing with neighborhood kids and then it's just automatic.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#490

Post by meowster »

watwut wrote: post #432
meowster wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's "normal" only in the sense that most everyone behaves this way today, but I don't think it should be that way. By the time I was older in Scouts, my siblings were in college and my parent could drive me to wherever, or at least to the meeting place where I could carpool. The times when my parent wasn't available, I took the city bus. I imagine if one of my siblings was was the same age and our parent cou…

I dont think the person you responded to was thinking about driving vs busses. Basically, you are 16 and want to spend whole weekend out of house including during the night. Not doing it without parental permission seems normal to me. Nor it seems new. My gradma or grandpa definitely could not just spend whole night and weekend away just by own decision. They would expect my parents to ask them for permission. I was…

Mine was default allow, his was default block. I had to inform, he had to get permission. Perhaps same result, but one feels more autonomous than the other.

From another one of my comments:

> I always just told my parent that I was doing something just so they knew where I was - not necessarily asking for permission, but that gave them the chance to veto it (which they only did one time as punishment when I got in trouble at school).

> I think that parents need to teach their kids how to be responsible and autonomous, and treat them like they are their own person

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