The unusual ways Western parents raise children • Hacker News Board

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#311

Post by kar5pt » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #249

alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

"IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid." It's a weird and tricky balance that one has to strike, in the US, in 2021 ... On the one hand, I feel strongly that kids should have free time and energy to explore and experiment and I am reinforced daily i…

Exactly. I tried joining sports for the first time when I was 14 (around 15 years ago). And it was honestly a humiliating experience. I was so far behind the other kids in skill level it was just sad. And I was the ONLY one on the team that couldn't keep up. Everyone else had been practicing for 5-10 years.

You're a good parent to notice and think about these things.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#312

Post by munificent » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #235

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

>Just raise your kids with love. Be compassionate, and patient. Right and i would add, give them as many time with you as possible. Some of my greatest memory's was strolling around my dad workplace, when he had work todo. Children's don't need parent's as entertainment, but as adventure preparers.

> give them as many time with you as possible.

Children in the West today already spend more time with parents than at any point in the past:

https://news.uci.edu/2016/09/28/todays-parents-spend-more-ti...

Quality time with parents is important, of course, but we have become so focused on parental time that children are sacrificing solo time where they learn independence and initiative, and peer time where they learn to create their own identity and cooperate. Also, this places an unsustainable burden on parents who are expected to work full time as well as be parent, teacher, playmate, and cruise director for their kids.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#313

Post by JKCalhoun » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

eurusdac wrote: post #214

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I agree, my advice to any new parent would be to listen carefully to advice about how not to drown your child while bathing them, and how to make sure they're not suffocated by their bedding. Both real issues where some simple practices avoid the small risk of an absolutely catastrophic outcome. Then take all other advice with a pinch of salt. Just follow your best instincts and do what seems right. Your child will b…

For myself, the risk SIDS didn't even enter my calculus. (I confess I am a little skeptical that it exists at all.)

Regardless, I perceived the emotional bonding with the mother & father to far outweigh anything else and so we shared our bed with our children until they were perhaps 1 year old or so. And even after, they moved into their own small bed just a foot from ours in the same bedroom for another year or so.

I guess that was my "instinct". Although we received a crib as a gift, it just sat in another room, empty.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#314

Post by schwartzworld » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

Clewza313 wrote: post #146

diegocg wrote: post #24

>A 2016 review that looked at research on children sharing not just a room but a bed with one or more of their parents found a high prevalence in many Asian countries: Let me guess: there is a high correlation between sharing your room and poverty levels?

The simple truth is that dealing with young babies is way easier when they're in the same bed. When they cry, you can comfort them immediately, if you need to breastfeed, it takes about 5 seconds to get started. And they sell these nifty little divider things if you're paranoid about rolling over and crushing them, although as the article says this only appears to be a problem in practice if the parents are morbidly…

> this only appears to be a problem in practice if the parents are morbidly obese and/or on drugs/alcohol.

Or if you have a baby who fusses but doesn't actually need anything.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#315

Post by notsureaboutpg » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #285

alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

My coworker did this with her son. She was spread thin with afterschool programs, sports, projects and so on. Well, the kid got into Caltech. Where he'll probably meet amazing people and receive an excellent education. So maybe it worked? How many YC founders had this overbooked childhood? I'd guess over 70%.

I think your guess would be wrong, but I also don't think overbooking is a problem.

As a child who had lots of free time due to living in a place with a lack of structured activities for kids, I really envy kids who can take advantage of such resources enough to have a packed daily schedule.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#316

Post by angry-tempest » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

rudedogg wrote: post #211

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

They say because people from India that move to Britain still have low SIDS incidence, that its cultural. How about, genetic?

They do believe SIDS has a biological component

This is one of those "I can't prove it but I know this to be true"s. I would bet on this with 1/50 odds.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#317

Post by watwut » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #131

meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

These days, there aren't many kids who only do Scouting...it's an over-scheduling comorbidity. For kids who resist over-scheduling, scouting seems to be one of the first things to go...because den and pack meetings are by and for adults, they never make it to a troop. Or to put it another way, teenage apathy prevalence is probably pre-teen survivor bias.

The scouting, at least here, is very time consuming. It seems to want to be your whole lifestyle.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#318

Post by thejackgoode » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

NovaJehovah wrote: post #309

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

> You have an obligation to do the best that you can

This reads like an expectation mindset that with high probability will end up hurting you, your kid and your relationship. Somewhere here belongs the put-oxygen-mask-on-yourself-first metaphor

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#319

Post by benjohnson » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #150

benjohnson wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - my dad spanked me, but my mother spoke her contempt for me with words. The bruises healed much more quickly than the emotional scaring.

damn, this hits too close too home. I'm still so messed up after all those words. and I am 34 now. I forgot completely about the bruising as it never existed, but those words haunt me forever.

I know this is not the forum for it, but here's what helped for me:

1) Write every horrible event down in excruciating detail. For me that gave my mind the permission to forget/heal/move-in.

2) Explore the possibility that the abuser was abused themselves and that while that is not an excuse, it does make it more comprehensible. If you do find the a chain of abuse, then recognize that you have the wonderful opertunity to break the chain. It won't be easy.

3) Recognize the problem of over compensating - I was abused, but I over-compensated by smothering my children with love. I needed to give them a bit of space.

4) Talk about it to people that love you. A hug is nice. For me, I internalized the abuse and thought that I was unlovable. I am weird, but people do love me - that's a surprise.

Good luck with your healing!

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#320

Post by brianwawok » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

anw wrote: post #283

watertom wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 children, we only slept them in their rooms, starting day 10. Naps, day sleep, everything, they slept in their room and in their crib. The room was light controlled, meaning there was no light at all. They quickly associated any sleep with their room and their crib. We used a baby motion sleep mat for peace of mind for SIDS, the thing was so sensitive it could detect the breathing, but if the baby moved off the mat…

If you don't mind, which motion-detecting sleep mat did you wind up going with?

Not OP, but we used a competing product, which is

https://owletcare.com/

It is a foot attachment that basically watches heart rate and oxygen level all night, and freaks out if something is wrong.

Only a very few accidental freakouts (like kicked off foot), but gave a lot of peace of mind. Not cheap but seems pretty solid engineering wise.