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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#451

Post by zepto »

nvrspyx wrote: post #446
zepto wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do anything you want to with your own phone. The law allows you to hack on it in any way you like. What you are saying is that you don’t have the capacity to make the phone do what you want. You want Apple to do that work, and you want the government to force them to do it for you. That is not the same thing. You didn’t have to buy it if it didn’t do what you wanted. Are you claiming you didn’t know it was lo…

No. The work has already been done for all those things I want, I just can't utilize any of it. I don't want Apple to do anything other than allow me to install apps outside of the App Store and without the bullshit 7-day restriction on sideloading. I know what I bought and iPhones are still the best option for my use case despite the limitations. Just because I decided to purchase an iPhone from the limited options…

You can hack your phone by jailbreaking without paying anything to Apple.

I don’t have any problem with you being unhappy with Apple for not building what you want. The iPhone is pretty far from what I want too.

What I dispute is that they should be forced to build something for you, or that there is any ‘should’ about this. I want an open device too, and would prefer such a device to the iPhone, however I don’t want Apple to be forced to make one for me.

There are no gymnastics going on here. Apple’s software is not designed to make it easy for you to customize the way you would like. Nobody disputes that.

What I dispute is the use of the government to force them to change their designs, especially since we have alternatives to choose from and can contribute to them if we so desire.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#452

Post by Osiris »

saagarjha wrote: post #326
Osiris wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many apps, especially JavaScript based ones download unapproved JavaScript without a user's consent or knowledge as updates to the app outside of the review process but those are still allowed.

They may still be approved but I believe recent changes to the rules have made this behavior against the rules.

so all Expo apps will be banned?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#453

Post by kaba0 »

zepto wrote: post #431
kaba0 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op, but hardware and UX-wise they do a great job. Photo-taking is especially good which is pretty important on a mobile. Also, their phones will be supported for a remarkable number of years, while retaining their price on second hand markets. It doesn’t excuse them from letting me use my phone as I want to.

The op should respond since they seem to feel imprisoned, but you do not. It sounds like you just like the quality of their product. Apple does let you use the phone as you want to. They just didn’t design it to do the things you say you’d prefer. I assume that you wouldn’t have made the trade off if you didn’t think it was worth it. Liking a product enough to buy while wanting it to be designed a little differently…

Well, I don’t feel inprisoned, but nor am I completely happy with this phone.

iSH is really great, and is a must - and so would several other app which can’t exist here.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#454

Post by josephcsible »

mullingitover wrote: post #445
josephcsible wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you keep saying "secure" and "locked-down" like they go together, when the opposite is true?

I'm sorry, I honestly didn't know that opening up iDevices to run arbitrary, unsigned code would be a security win. Can you elaborate on that?

That's not what I said. It's fine for devices to only run signed code. It only becomes bad when the owner isn't in control of whose code signatures are trusted.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#455

Post by kaba0 »

zepto wrote: post #430
kaba0 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you want to enter the mobile market you HAVE to? This “the customers will choose the best” thing has never been true, even in its source. The context is “in a fair competition between competing products” (which won’t be true again, because humans are not rational - otherwise marketing would not matter) Also, it’s not like I have any chance ever to compete with Apple, even if I were to be the cleverest peop…

You don’t have to ‘enter the mobile market’. That is a lifestyle choice. It’s not part of your identity. At least you admit this is about your desire to sell things to Apple’s customer base. You could always build for Android. You can compete with Apple. Obviously not on your own, but remember that when Apple was founded it was just a few people in a garage, whereas IBM was a global corporation. You can choose to con…

It’s not a desire, it is a must. There are certain kinds of application that simply would be meaningless, if they could not target 50% of the population. Like what would a messenger clone do with only half the people? (And I am fairly sure, that if nothing else, financially most apps or app ideas are in this category)

We agree on your last point, an open platform should finally emerge (and it is pretty much happening with pinephone) - but it would be a fairy tale to believe that it can gain foothold in the recent future against these monster corps

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#456

Post by kaba0 »

zepto wrote: post #429
kaba0 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a misunderstanding of market will choose the best competitor. A competition in of itself is not fair, it needs heavy regulation to become fair - like a running contest could be won by anyone if they were to shoot the other contenders. And this is what happens in unregulated markets - we’ve got an oligopoly, with a really high bar to enter - basically impossible for a newcomer (note that even Microsoft failed…

This is simply false. Newcomers enter the phone market all the time. What we don’t have is an adequately developed alternative OS that can appeal to regular users yet. Microsoft failed because they have their own legacy to protect. Google is compromised by their need to maintain their position in search. There are plenty of Linux phone projects. The only reason none of these are a good replacement yet is a lack of ti…

You forget about the splitting of developers were a new project to emerge.

Microsoft failed, partly because it was as of yet not a big enough platform to target by other developers - they have enought things to do with android and apple. A new platform can’t emerge unless there is some incentive for developers to target it. Linux phones are in a special circumstance, because apps are developer for them out of a hobby. But phones are a main social device, you can’t have one that doesn’t have your bank’s app on it for example. Linux phones must emulate android (and it is sort of working, fortunately) to remain afloat.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#457

Post by zepto »

kaba0 wrote: post #456
zepto wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply false. Newcomers enter the phone market all the time. What we don’t have is an adequately developed alternative OS that can appeal to regular users yet. Microsoft failed because they have their own legacy to protect. Google is compromised by their need to maintain their position in search. There are plenty of Linux phone projects. The only reason none of these are a good replacement yet is a lack of ti…

You forget about the splitting of developers were a new project to emerge. Microsoft failed, partly because it was as of yet not a big enough platform to target by other developers - they have enought things to do with android and apple. A new platform can’t emerge unless there is some incentive for developers to target it. Linux phones are in a special circumstance, because apps are developer for them out of a hobby…

Most online banking can be done just fine via a browser.

But ultimately you are right - there does have to be some incentive for people to support the platform.

People here are claiming that freedom from Apple is a huge incentive for developers.

Is that not correct?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#458

Post by zepto »

kaba0 wrote: post #455
zepto wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to ‘enter the mobile market’. That is a lifestyle choice. It’s not part of your identity. At least you admit this is about your desire to sell things to Apple’s customer base. You could always build for Android. You can compete with Apple. Obviously not on your own, but remember that when Apple was founded it was just a few people in a garage, whereas IBM was a global corporation. You can choose to con…

It’s not a desire, it is a must. There are certain kinds of application that simply would be meaningless, if they could not target 50% of the population. Like what would a messenger clone do with only half the people? (And I am fairly sure, that if nothing else, financially most apps or app ideas are in this category) We agree on your last point, an open platform should finally emerge (and it is pretty much happening…

There are plenty of messenger apps that don’t have 50% of the US population.

iMessage is one of them, as is Facebook messenger.

There are many other messengers with far smaller user bases. There is no reason at all that a messaging app needs to address 50% of the population immediately.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#459

Post by young_unixer »

gverrilla wrote: post #335
young_unixer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most software developers in HN are not in it only for the money. Software is an essential part of our modern life: transport, communication, manufacture, finance, etc. depend on software. At least in those areas, we need reliable software and we need device owners to have control over their devices. We need to have a good software infrastructure if we want to progress as a species. The current software landscape is b…

why do you think game consoles are not essential to our society?

If tomorrow we wake up unable to play video games, we would be kinda disappointed, but our life would keep going normally (unless you're a game developer).

If we wake up unable to access banking, communication or transport, our life would be more or less ruined, for everyone.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#460

Post by williamscales »

mullingitover wrote: post #197
kevincox wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIUC this isn't legal as the macOS license doesn't allow running it on non-Apple hardware. (unless your Linux box is a Mac of course)

Driving over the speed limit and jaywalking aren't legal either ;)

I found a project for running MacOS in a VM on Linux. It is called "sosumi". A great double Apple reference.
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