Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

ish.app

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 484 posts

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#301

Post by Osiris »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #74
saagarjha wrote: post #5

These are linked in the post, but I'm pulling them out as a top-level comment so you can focus your discussion on those. Theodore on how the App Review process could be improved: https://tbodt.com/2020/11/08/app-review-experiences.html Ramblings I wrote on why I believe the guideline iSH was pulled under was incorrectly applied and needs to be rewritten: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/11/08/fixing-section-2-5-2/ Rel…

The reviewer that reinstalled the package manager with wget is my favorite part of this whole debacle. The reviewer could in theory reimplement an os in python or javascript in one of the already approved scripting applications. Then implement apt-get or another package manager and install all sorts of dangerous codes!! /s

Many apps, especially JavaScript based ones download unapproved JavaScript without a user's consent or knowledge as updates to the app outside of the review process but those are still allowed.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#302

Post by Guvante »

crazygringo wrote: post #293
echelon wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop defending Apple and their shitty behavior. > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened? Apple is an enemy of computing and the DOJ needs to break them up.

Why did you quote that 4 times? We're OK with the phrase because the alternative was people's phones being infested with malware and viruses. It's pretty obvious that's what happened. Apple built a phone you can let your whole family use without worries. Why are you confused by this? If computing is your goal, then an iPhone is obviously not the device for you. Fortunately for you, there are tons of other platforms f…

Multiple app stores are no less secure than singular app stores everything else being the same.

Plenty of people aren't okay with Apple's actions but there aren't exactly great alternatives.

Nothing is stopping Apple from allowing other stores other than control and in app purchase profits.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#303

Post by Osiris »

syrrim wrote: post #222
enragedcacti wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it isn't really a local shell. As they describe it, it's an x86 interpreter, and therefore all of the code you run is sandboxed and isolated from the OS the same way as a Python interpreter would be. Python would let you make a network request, pull code down, and exec() it, so this doesn't really seem that different.

The wording of the app store guideline is here: > https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sof... >Educational apps designed to teach, develop, or allow students to test executable code may, in limited circumstances, download code provided that such code is not used for other purposes. "in limited circumstances", "provided that such code is not used for other purposes". This is worded generically enou…

How does one know that they will comply with a rule like that? Do they

1. Build the app first and hope for the best (this seems to happen a lot)

2. Get some type of preliminary approval by Apple so they don't sink all the money into building the app if it won't be?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#304

Post by Osiris »

cstejerean wrote: post #282
kimsant wrote: post #200

This year I build qoob, an app to interact with an IOT electric scooter parking. In August I had the MVP ready, we build 2 prototypes and could save and charge scooters of all voltages in office halls. The project is not my main job, so time is precious. I was asked to create a new functionality: Allow companies to buy and borrow e-scooters between company employees. But what happened is that I had to implement Apple…

So you implemented Apple Login and none of your users use it?

I read the comment as "I have limited time and must be wise about what I spend it on. Apple is forcing me to spend time on something I don't want to as other things are more important".

Apple is controlling his product roadmap.

Whether people use it or not is not the point. It's the it's the opportunity cost of having built something else that would have been MORE impactful to customers.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#305

Post by echelon »

ratww wrote: post #286
echelon wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a red herring! It's just as easy to firewall your platform and prevent trackers. Open installation and privacy are not mutually exclusive. The browser is a firewalled platform. Look at what Mozilla can do for privacy on their shoestring budget. Apple likes it the way they have it. You cannot tell me the DOJ can't force them to open their platform and suddenly every Apple user is stuck on 90's era Windows…

A firewall partially "fixes" part of the spying/tracking, but doesn't solve any of the other issues I pointed, especially concerning forced installation of software that screws up with my machine. Also, the fact I use a firewall doesn't excuse developers from being assholes and spying/tracking me behind my back. It's my computer, it's a developer's sacred right to have any kind of code that acts against my interests.…

To copy the argument used by Apple supporters, you can choose another bank.

> It's my computer, it's a developer's sacred right to have any kind of code that acts against my interests.

Apple has created an exclusionary economic zone and put 50% of Americans in it. This is unprecedented.

> Also, the fact I use a firewall doesn't excuse developers from being assholes and spying/tracking me behind my back.

A sandbox will protect you from everything you claim to be worried about.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#306

Post by echelon »

zepto wrote: post #285
echelon wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything. Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior. Apple has an illegal platform and it must be regulated. They've captured 50% of the United States computing market and illegally inserted themselves as middleman into every transaction, every software install. They punish everyone trying to do business and…

Apple doesn’t impact anyone who doesn’t choose to be impacted. Nobody is forced to interact with them, either as a customer or a supplier.

I've got a video streaming service. What the hell else am I going to do?

I don't want to deal with Apple and their draconian rules. They translate to "you're small peanuts not worth our time" or "you're not paying us enough".

Apple does not deserve to control all economic activity reaching 50% of Americans. Only the government gets to do that. Last I checked, Tim Cook is not in the Treasury department.

This is the company that cares more about dollars than the lives of Belarusian protestors. I do not want to deal with these thugs. It's insulting, degrading, and costs people their livelihoods.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#307

Post by zakki »

zepto wrote: post #247
RonanTheGrey wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd still like a good explanation why I can't do what I want with my phone. You don't want do to that? Good, don't. Make it so that I can, if I have to tick a box somewhere hidden in Apple's labyrinthine and undiscoverable Settings app. Of course, we already know the answer why I can't do what I want with my phone, because it isn't my phone, is it, Apple continues to think of it as theirs and they simply grudgingly r…

You can do what you want with your phone. You have a legal right to jailbreak it and hack on it in any way you like.

Jailbreak is not consumer friendly. Which is not Apple way, is it?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#308

Post by jshen »

jackson1442 wrote: post #255
jshen wrote: post #180

I’ve been all in on Apple for about 15 years, but have been slowly moving away as it gets harder to use their products for development and power usage. Got a windows laptop recently, and the developer experience is much better than Mac OS which surprised me. Thinking about getting a surface pro to replace my iPad for traveling. Edit: the only thing that keeps me on the iPhone right now is that their hardware (chips i…

Make sure to grab one of the more mature Surface lines. My original Surface Pro had bad thermals; melted the adhesive for the display off. Friend had a Surface Book 1 snap in his bag, and another friend had a Surface Pro X die on him ~2 weeks after buying it. Interestingly enough, all these issues only happened on the first version of each product line.

Thanks.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#309

Post by zepto »

Osiris wrote: post #294
zepto wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not suggesting consumer behavior should change Apple. I’m suggesting that consumers should buy a product that that suits their needs. If you need alternate stores - buy Android. There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything.

> If you need alternate stores - buy Android. And when Google decides to stop allowing that, then what? There's a duopoly and history suggests that when one can get away with rent seeking the other will follow. If we continue to allow this behavior now then we guarantee it'll continue on the future. This is exactly what happened with the 30%. Google did it because Apple had set the standard. They didn't do it because…

If Google decides to do that, then you might have an argument.

Google has a great incentive not to do it, which is that if they do it there would be a real argument for software distribution. to be regulated by the government.

But until they do, there isn’t.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#310

Post by Shared404 »

burnte wrote: post #289
zepto wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. On Android this isn't an issue, you leave sideloading disabled. Apple could use the same method. Apple could even make you use XCode to unlock the ability. But locking it entirely is obnoxious.

> Apple could even make you use XCode to unlock the ability. But locking it entirely is obnoxious.

Wow. That is actually a really elegant solution to that problem. Well done.

The only way I would change it would be to walk it a little away from Xcode, and have it be through an official tool for Mac/Linux/Windows, and possibly open source it so it could be ported to BSD/whatever else by the community.

That has it's own issues though, and I don't know that it would actually be better, it's just where I would draw the line.

Post reply on HN