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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#291

Post by echelon »

burnte wrote: post #289
zepto wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. On Android this isn't an issue, you leave sideloading disabled. Apple could use the same method. Apple could even make you use XCode to unlock the ability. But locking it entirely is obnoxious.

Bingo!

This option doesn't open a black hole that suddenly swallows your grandparents.

Where are all the people begging for Google to close this?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#292

Post by tsycho »

mullingitover wrote: post #88
jacquesm wrote: post #20

PSA: You don't actually own your i* devices. You did pay for them but someone else controls them and determines what you get to run on them.

Incorrect. You can do local builds and installs of any code you like.

If you have to rebuild and reinstall your app every 7 days, it doesn't meet a reasonable definition of "runs any code you like". You are being technically correct, but disingenuously so.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#293

Post by crazygringo »

echelon wrote: post #223
yakz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

Stop defending Apple and their shitty behavior. > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened? Apple is an enemy of computing and the DOJ needs to break them up.

Why did you quote that 4 times?

We're OK with the phrase because the alternative was people's phones being infested with malware and viruses.

It's pretty obvious that's what happened. Apple built a phone you can let your whole family use without worries. Why are you confused by this?

If computing is your goal, then an iPhone is obviously not the device for you. Fortunately for you, there are tons of other platforms for computing.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#294

Post by Osiris »

zepto wrote: post #251
echelon wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just need to not buy an Apple product. Consumer behavior won't change Apple. We need the strong arm of the DOJ to tell Apple not to do this. > Apple is a friend Apple is not a friend of anybody. They're a for-profit company.

I’m not suggesting consumer behavior should change Apple. I’m suggesting that consumers should buy a product that that suits their needs. If you need alternate stores - buy Android. There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything.

> If you need alternate stores - buy Android.

And when Google decides to stop allowing that, then what?

There's a duopoly and history suggests that when one can get away with rent seeking the other will follow.

If we continue to allow this behavior now then we guarantee it'll continue on the future.

This is exactly what happened with the 30%. Google did it because Apple had set the standard. They didn't do it because they did the math and came the exact same conclusion as Apple ina vacuum.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#295

Post by ratww »

peterkelly wrote: post #257
ratww wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> use banking apps Coming from a country where at some point the only way to have internet banking was to install an impossible-to-uninstall rootkit in my own machine that fucked up accessibility, messed up Steam and made it impossible for me from using competitors (because other banks needed incompatible rootkits), iOS being the way it is makes a lot of sense. I once had to spend a whole weekend untangling the mess…

South Korea/Windows XP?

South America.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#296

Post by [deleted] »

Valkhyr wrote: post #171
banana_giraffe wrote: post #151

> Soon after we released iSH without apk, we found users who had figured out a way to get apk back using wget and were posting about this throughout the internet. We suspect this was the reason why our rejection notice mentioned wget specifically As the writer of one of the links in that sentence, I almost feel bad for making the post I did. Almost. If I hadn't someone else would have, clearly. I'm not some super hac…

> Then again, maybe I'm just having a "get off my lawn" moment, and Apple is on the right path. No, you are not wrong, and they are not on the right path, except maybe for themselves. They have no right at all to tell people what they can and cannot do on devices that we paid for, and it's damned time that antitrust regulations somewhere forced them to allow sideloading and alternative app stores.

[deleted]

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#297

Post by TheKarateKid »

yakz wrote: post #78
mortenjorck wrote: post #28

This isn’t sustainable. Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting. This on top of the App Store's already-onerous restrictions and the fact that it’s the only practical way to get your software on one of the world's largest computing platforms has already engendered a deep antipathy [1] among Apple developers, and there are no signs it’s getting better. Something has to…

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

> Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule.

Is it? Apple can one day decide that a web page with JavaScript loading in an app is “unapproved software.” And now your entire app/business is in jeopardy.

And what about apps like Reddit and Imgur that host tons of NSFW content, yet are allowed to be published in the App Store?

Apple has more blurred lines than Robin Thicke.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#298

Post by echelon »

nemothekid wrote: post #287
echelon wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.

No, the fundamental error you are making is you, the developer , are incorrectly assuming, that I, the user , cares about whether Apple lets you make money or do whatever they want on my device. Even the way the worded your response you are making a plea as a developer to a user " hey take your app own to the gallows and kill it. ". I don't have an app. What I do understand is; given the last 20 years of computing is…

I don't care what you think, honestly. (And don't misjudge my tone here - I mean this in the friendliest way.)

I care about the fact that the US government has let this gorilla grow into King Kong and start throwing us into walls and trampling on our industry.

If this trend continues, the giants will swallow us completely. Our industry has always been special, and the barriers have historically been low. Now that Apple enjoys a position at the top, they're putting up fences and walls for the rest of us.

Apple is shitting into all of our faces, and we're being told to just take it.

Meanwhile, you celebrate that. Please don't.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#299

Post by zepto »

echelon wrote: post #281
zepto wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolutely my decision by to make if they ask me to recommend something to them. Especially if they have been having problems with malware and that’s why they are asking. If they own the device they get to use it as it was designed to be used. They also have the legal right to change it themselves (at least in the US). What you don’t have is any basis for forcing Apple to design software the way you want, or to…

You can't make that decision for me and millions of others. You're voting to make our industry inequitable and running software some Orwellian dystopia. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple one day mandated that we hand them the copyright to the code we write. We're one step away from that now: we already have to write against a strict spec, fit all the rules, and are subject to arbitrary dismissal. They take 30% and lea…

Are you an iOS developer?

Do you own an iPhone?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#300

Post by strken »

zepto wrote: post #263
hda2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. Frankly, that's not your decision to make. If they own the device, they get to decide. If they don't or are too young, then you can use various controls (i.e parental controls) to lock your devices down the way you want. This is a straw man.

It’s absolutely my decision by to make if they ask me to recommend something to them. Especially if they have been having problems with malware and that’s why they are asking. If they own the device they get to use it as it was designed to be used. They also have the legal right to change it themselves (at least in the US). What you don’t have is any basis for forcing Apple to design software the way you want, or to…

There's a pretty clear reason for passing legislation to force Apple to allow third party stores, and I think it has been explained well in the parent comments: some people believe users should control their devices. There are also pretty clear reasons for not doing so: other people believe Apple should control its devices.

Politicians can legislate things. They already get to dictate how parties interact. I'm not sure how rights come into it, since they wouldn't be breaching any of your rights that I can think of.

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