Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

technologyreview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 688 posts

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#431

Post by allie1 »

nataz wrote: post #284
eigenvector wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now think of the problem in reverse, from the government's side. Why are they contracting it out when all of the most difficult aspects involve integrating with government systems, policies and personnel - things that government already knows how to do? "Because we don't have the expertise to do software development." The comments in this thread, which I fully agree with by the way, just cement my belief that if gove…

Ha, I'm currently a federal government program manager, so I am thinking about it from the government's side right now. I've also been a consultant cog in a mega-corp and run my own small consulting business, so I've seen it from both sides. Tech folks underestimate non tech challenges (basically anything outside of their domain), and clients don't actually know what they want. It's an age old problem in lots of indu…

Would you say the price is justified?

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#432

Post by rlonn »

StavrosK wrote: post #426
closeparen wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your next laptop, car, etc. try doing what you think the government ought to do here. Write down the requirements, give them to a neutral third party who doesn’t doesn’t use computers/drive, and ask them to figure out the cheapest thing that meets the requirements. Commit yourself to buying only that. See how it goes for you.

I don't understand the analogy. Why would I give the requirements for making a website to someone who doesn't make websites? The government should do whatever anyone who wants a website does, hire someone to make a website. What's the issue?

I think this is what usually happens and what causes many public projects to fail: the customer has no competent staff that can a) write requirements or b) evaluate tenders. They're often incompetent enough to even hire someone competent to do those things. The government should maybe have a dedicated unit that assists other units with procurement of IT solutions. Where the staff gets very well compensated when a project is a success. But that's probably never going to happen, for more than one reason.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#433

Post by echelon »

brtkdotse wrote: post #415
aasasd wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reads like a copy of Russian government contract practices. Put up a contest, list requirements in such a way that only one company would satisfy them without going bust or mad, award the contract to that company. ‘Make the thing using this and that technologies’ does appear regularly.

There was some hubbub in Sweden a while back about the armed forces putting up a _really_ specific job ad, like it was tailored to one person. Well, it turned out it was, because the person posting the add forgot to take out the phrase “Make sure Björn meets these requirements” in the middle of the ad.

Do you have a link to the story? That sounds both hilarious and disappointing.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#434

Post by MikeDelta »

mgh2 wrote: post #385
zaroth wrote: post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

Isn't Palantir doing something similar?

Yes they are from what I understood. Clever strategy if you are dealing with a client who doesn't see further than the next move.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#436

Post by narrator »

smsm42 wrote: post #430
8bitsrule wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geez, I thought the whole idea is that 'government is the problem. We need to let the private sector handle all these things.' Making the CDC look bad appears to have been part of that program last year. Shame the price has been so high.

Well, the thing is that when the government takes tax money and allocates it to private companies via obscure and arguably corrupt procedures, you get the worst of both worlds. Inefficiency and rigidity of the government, combined with opacity and greed of the private companies. When people say privatizing things could be a solution, they don't usually mean "take tax money and award it through a no-bid contract to a…

>you get the worst of both worlds. Inefficiency and rigidity of the government, combined with opacity and greed of the private companies.

This is what is being referred to when a politician used the words "public/private partnership.'

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#437

Post by lordnacho »

jariel wrote: post #291
mdorazio wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

No, this is not cynical enough. Even the part you mentioned: 'wrangling data for legacy systems' does not cost that much, it's still a small piece of the pie. The 'bulk of it' goes to sales, BD, marketing, profits, layers of excess management, specialist consultants, accountants and lawyers. This contract is an example of 'modern world graft'. Healtchare.gov cost $1-2 Billion and it was also a mess until Google Engin…

> Software is not like Construction where the costs can at least be well estimated and you don't need geniuses.

Construction is notorious for cost overruns?

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#438

Post by Jare »

aasasd wrote: post #417
pessimizer wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absurdly common and has nothing to do with Russia other than plenty of Russians also do it. The reason you pay more to get a political job than political jobs pay is because you get control of contracts. Contracts get you rich. edit: Speaking from direct American government experience.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we don't have a monopoly on such practices, only couldn't remember if I ever read about Western procedures and misconducts with these contests. Dunno even what they're properly called—it's a ‘tender’ here. However, I'm familiar with the term ‘kickback’...

Also its less spectacular but more long term, "revolving door".

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#439

Post by KorematsuFred »

didibus wrote: post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

Oh my sweet summer child, thou has not seen the internal working of government contracts.

In order to qualify to even bid on a contract there is a pretty high entry barrier. The amount of time it will take you to cross that barrier would be more than amount of time it will take you to start a real business. Bidding is another expensive process which costs money. If you bid on 10 contracts in a year and win one the cost of bidding on rest 9 contracts must be covered to the won contract.

Then comes the compliance costs of various government regulations. In a startup world you can take up accessibility as a P2 item but in government contracts it is a P0. So there are all these complexities involved which bloat the contract. Government has passed probably thousand regulations on whom you can hire and how you work, where the data is stored and what kind of background verification you have done on your employees.

Of course if you and I were to develop a similar website we could do it for $4M and spare some cash to buy couple of Ferraris.

PS. There is also bribes. Of course these are never called so but you have to spend good amount of time golfing with right people, throwing parties, offering front row seats to NBA finals and those sort of things to get your files moving.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#440

Post by johnchristopher »

echelon wrote: post #433
brtkdotse wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was some hubbub in Sweden a while back about the armed forces putting up a _really_ specific job ad, like it was tailored to one person. Well, it turned out it was, because the person posting the add forgot to take out the phrase “Make sure Björn meets these requirements” in the middle of the ad.

Do you have a link to the story? That sounds both hilarious and disappointing.

A quick google search didn't give me much but I found this https://www.france24.com/en/20200115-swedish-military-duped-...
Post reply on HN