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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#111
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be so stupidly strident? Paying giant consultants to build websites is a money sink, sure. Do you think this website was something Congress spent a year deliberating? Or a day? Stop this nonsense.

Oops, this comment will make things more clear: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25975218 They awarded the contract without even getting a bid from anyone else. That's $44 million dollars. That's multiple lifetimes of salaries for the average joe. And they couldn't spend some time deliberating?

There's no accountability because tax money printer go brrr.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#112
post #17

I have worked with Deloitte on two projects (on clients' side, I would never willingly work for Deloitte). Generally expect them to do absolute minimum necessary to meet the contract. The code was obfuscated to ensure support contract. The people employed to write it were not interested in the quality in the slightest but were interested a lot in specifics of the contract.

They're getting paid for a deliverable. Why do you expect free work?

No good engineer I've worked with only did the bare minimum. Usually it was 2x or 3x beyond that e.g. thinking about the customer, understanding the right technologies, designing for scale, etc.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#113
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deloitte is a whole lot better manipulating and sweet talking the government than it is at building anything, that is for sure. Surely their track record should see them permanently disqualified?

I'm sure if you actually looked at their full track record, the vast vast majority of projects probably result in "mediocre but workable" systems, you just don't hear about them because that's a boring headline. Deloitte is a $40 billion company, it's not like every single one of their projects is a complete failure.

>> it's not like every single one of their projects is a complete failure.

But they can all be a bloated, over budget, late mess

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#114
post #81

Hey CDC, I’ll build your website for half that price. By myself. And it will work. Just uh, hit me up haha It’s insane how far those unfamiliar with software will take the mythical man month. Nonono throwing money and people at your problem is absolutely not guaranteed to solve it better. My offer is of course a joke, well unless they want to talk specifics and I agree it’s reasonable to take on myself. Or just plain…

are you also going to answer the phone calls and e-mails of thousands (potentially millions) of technology illiterate users?

I mean with $22M on the line I’m willing to at least investigate a means of doing so.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#115
> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect proprietary platform, and the need to stand up O&M support for VAMS while concurrently developing future releases, Deloitte is the only contractor that can achieve the O&M scope and contract requirements.”

Can’t make this stuff up.

https://beta.sam.gov/opp/2f5fc512fdde4e22860832337aac420f/vi...

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#116
post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

Full disclosure: I have had the distinct "privilege" on having worked with all aspects of large consulting firms, from working at Cap Gemini, to being a sub for a smaller company on a large gov't contract with Lockheed Martin, to actually competing (and winning) against the large companies with my own, small consulting company startup.

In short, the above comment is spot on. Companies like Deloitte, Cap Gemini, PwC, etc. all make their margins purely on their reputation. Just like back in the 80s when the phrase "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" became popular, I think from the mid-90s all the way through to even 2010s there has been a similar sentiment with large, multinational consulting companies.

These consulting companies know they have a strong reputation for large scale, enterprise software projects, and so they will milk margins by charging high rates, upselling all sorts of additional features, and fulfilling projects with the lowest cost resources, whether it'd be outsourcing overseas, utilizing H1-B workers, or bringing in recent college grads. (Accenture is probably one of the most notorious for this -- not sure if they still do this now, but back in the early 2000s, they were known for bringing in college grads from all sorts of usually non-STEM majors, and they would put them through a 2-week bootcamp (er "Core Analyst Training") out in St. Charles, where more focus was on the partying and hooking up than anything else, but then shortly afterword, they'd be put on projects where they'd be expected to do technical design and even coding, while being billed out at $180+/hour)

Now, in all fairness, for every highly publicized, disastrous rollout that one of these companies gets notoriety for, there are actually still dozens of much less public, relatively successful implementations that gets deployed without any issue or fanfare.

But despite this, the costs for even the successful projects are still ridiculously high. As the main reason for their huge margins are primarily in their reputations, then as their reputations continue to erode from things like this news piece, clients will start to wonder if the large costs can continue to be justified.

And I'm beginning to see this sentiment directly -- my small dozen-person consulting company has not only been able to compete directly against these larger companies, but we have started winning contracts against them as well. For the latest contract we won, we bid at about 20% of what one of the larger companies ended up coming in at -- they actually thought they were a shoe-in because they were the incumbent, having built out several other projects already for the client. But we ended up being selected not just because of our pricing, but because of our overall proposal, favorable terms and expertise on the domain.

What's even more surprising is that even though we offered "bargain basement" pricing relative to theirs, it will still end up being the most profitable project we have had to-date -- it just makes it crazy to think what kind of profits/margins that they can make.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've no love for Deloitte, but the one benefit they do have here is the ability to mobilize quickly on something like this. It's simply impossible to "hire 146 engineers" within any reasonable time frame, let alone get them all organized in a way that you can manage them effectively (and don't forget the project managers/scrum masters/etc that would need to be hired too). Deloitte, OTOH, has an entire existing busine…

This should have been started at the beginning of the pandemic, if this was a rush job then that raises further incompetence questions

I mean it's certainly no secret that the US government suffered from incredible incompetence when it came to managing the pandemic.

With that said, the start of the pandemic was ~1 year ago. Even if it started right then, 12 months for a country-wide, government-run IT project is a rush job.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#118
post #18

> Why was Deloitte awarded the project on a no-bid basis? The contracts claim the company was the only “responsible source”[1] to build the tool. [1]: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/6.302-1

Usually government agencies write the contracts in a way that prevents other parties from bidding to streamline the procurement process. Now what I don't understand, is why wasn't the contract written so the state could refuse broken software, or to get a partial refund if it's doesn't meet the specifications. Someone got wined and dined pretty well. And government needs better lawyers when dealing with private contr…

> And government needs better lawyers when dealing with private contractors.

The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#119
post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

> At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year

Maybe they did and the too many chefs to cooks ratio played out, seen and experienced that.

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