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EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#411

Post by ribosometronome »

dcow wrote: post #385
mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

> I don't get why you would regulate such a thing. Because there's absolutely no downside to telling Apple it can't artificially make its iMessage platform restricted to Apple devices. We literally have seen leaked emails where Apple deliberately does this as an anti-consumer platform lock in play. The slippery slope hypothetical you provide is not the reality. Nobody is asking governments to regulate adding cool new…

>Nobody is asking governments to regulate adding cool new features to the that participants can choose to implement or not for their users as they see fit.

Isn't that exactly what you're asking of Apple? Apple already has SMS. You want them to adopt RCS because it has cool new features that are lacking in SMS.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#412

Post by ribosometronome »

mattrighetti wrote: post #222
dijit wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [..] you don't get to decide what "social good" is Well, technically I have a say, I elect my leaders and can write to them with my opinion. Often it is the case that salesmen and charletons get into those positions but the basic premise of those positions is that they're intended to act in the social good. What you propose is that somehow tech companies will act in the social good by themselves, which I find parti…

> The only antidote to this is regulations. Well, I respectfully disagree, I'm a firm believer that regulations disproportionately hurt smaller businesses in the long run because those giants that have the monopoly move way faster than governments and they usually have thousands of smart lawyers ready to find holes and exploit/get around regulations made, usually, by people that does not understand the subject enough…

Regulations can disproportionately affect small businesses and still be worthwhile by virtue of preventing the thing they're regulating. For example, might be harder to start a train company with rigid safety standards but not spilling toxic chemicals over small towns is ideal.

I think USB-C's relatively flimsily implemented open standard is kind of evidence of why Apple is hesitant to things like RCS. Good luck charging a Nintendo Switch or your laptop with just a random usb-c cable you found laying around that came with who knows what. Hope you have an entire day day.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#413

Post by [deleted] »

h1fra wrote: post #396
fnordpiglet wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please accept all cookies to receive your response.

This is not the take you think it is. The regulation was there to prevent companies from abusing cookies, banner is just a side-effect of companies not willing to respect privacy.

[deleted]

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#414

Post by danaris »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #368
hellojesus wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of market economies is to let people vote with their resources. The alternative of having people vote for a representative body that regulates how they transact is far worse. Best case you get a almost as good outcome. Worst case is 49.9% of people suffer horribly under state enforced "social good".

> Worst case is 49.9% of people suffer horribly under state enforced "social good". As an iPhone, iPad, and iMessage user, please explain how I will "suffer horribly" from being able to interact with the iMessage service from non-Apple devices.

1) If it is prohibitively difficult (with what that means entirely defined by Apple) for them to fully support all features of iMessage to non-Apple users, and the law requires that other devices have full parity (I don't know if it does; the article is pretty short and detail-light), then Apple may have to remove features from iMessage even on Apple devices.

2) Apple may choose not to try to implement new features that they otherwise would have, for several possible reasons: similar to #1, they don't think they can feasibly implement them cross-platform; due to the extra effort of supporting multiple platforms, they no longer have the dev resources to devote to it; they think it will no longer be as profitable; etc

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#415

Post by mattrighetti »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #383
mattrighetti wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only antidote to this is regulations. Well, I respectfully disagree, I'm a firm believer that regulations disproportionately hurt smaller businesses in the long run because those giants that have the monopoly move way faster than governments and they usually have thousands of smart lawyers ready to find holes and exploit/get around regulations made, usually, by people that does not understand the subject enough…

> Well, I respectfully disagree, I'm a firm believer You have proposed no mehcanism to keep monopolies in check. You are a firm beliver in what? > giants that have the monopoly move way faster than governments So governments should be even more agressive and disproportionate to be effevtive? That is the inevitable conclusion of your argument.

The conclusion of my argument is that regulations disincentive competition and that’s why you end up with monopolies, so keep regulations at minimum.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#416

Post by teekert »

deaddodo wrote: post #406
imp0cat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neighborhood watch using Whatsapp.

Yes, I can also Google translate. That wasn’t the question. The question was: “What does that mean? And why is it particularly nefarious/concerning?” If I said “Neighborhood watch at /r/MyNeighborNameWatchDiscussion on reddit”, is that concerning too?

It’s our government endorsing the use of an (in my opinion) horrible and closed platform. It’s public money being spend to promote a commercial company that’s not even Dutch and has a horrible privacy track record. Our local pirate party seems to agree, I’m always glad I voted for them when I read stuff like this: [0], what’s perhaps more crazy is that in that piece it is argued that WhatsApp is just how we call group chat apps :s.

[0] https://blog.iusmentis.com/2021/05/10/mag-een-gemeente-whats...

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#417

Post by microtherion »

oblio wrote: post #92
microtherion wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interoperability undoubtedly has advantages in the long run. But there's a delicate balance to be struck at what point in product evolution to standardize. I'm fine with standardizing on USB-C (even though the cable situation is a mess). But IMHO USB micro would have been inferior to lightning, and forcing Apple to standardize on that would have set back the industry. And imagine laptops if the EU had decided to solv…

I did the required reading so you don't have to. This is the law passed: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338... -> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TC1-COD-2021-0... Guess what, on page 10 the text says: > With respect to charging by means other than wired charging, divergent solutions could be developed in the future, which could have negative impacts on interoperability, on con…

> Hotels and many other places have started offering USB A and USB C ports. I think we're close to the point (5-10 years away?) where you could go to the US from Europe with just a laptop, for 2 weeks, and you'd be able to charge it just by using USB C ports available in restaurants, hotels, bars, offices, etc.

Yeah, but I don't think there are USB C razors yet.

> On top of that, for wall outlets the EU is mostly standardized except for Denmark, I think.

France and Germany have different outlets (although there are plugs that work in both), and as far as I can tell, Italy has a completely different outlet from either of them.

And the UK never stopped using their own system.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#418

Post by the_duke »

ddevault wrote: post #26

I'm very excited about the Digital Markets Act. Some things that excite me which are definitely in scope: - Interopability between walled gardens like messenger apps - Side-loading software on your devices I'm also hoping that we see this specifically lead to the following: - Installing your own operating system on any electronic device - Third-party video games running on proprietary consoles without the vendor's ap…

I agree, and I also feel we should stop using the term sideloading.

It has a very negative connotation, like you are doing something odd, out of the ordinary, unorthodox, even semi-forbidden.

In reality it's just: installing and running the software of your choice on a device you own.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#419

Post by teekert »

ArnoVW wrote: post #132
gyy52380 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no bubble because literally everyone has whatshapp. It's even available on "dumb phones". I've never met anyone of any age who doesn't have it.

Hi, greetings from Uithoorn. Please to meet you. I uninstalled WhatsApp when they updated their policy.

Hi, I’m from ‘s Gravenmoer, how are you doing?

I considered it, it’s too inconvenient. I did get my family and my in laws on Signal. Some friends as well. So I’m for more than 50% off of WA, fwiw.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#420

Post by User23 »

mrbadger wrote: post #395
User23 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation is also used as a euphemism for unelected bureaucrats creating policy with the force of law without real democratic input. Unless you consider the regulator retiring from government to take a seat on the board of a company he or she used to regulate or give $100k paid speeches to same a form of democracy I suppose. I don't know if that's what it means in the EU, but operationally it's observably what it me…

Your use of the term "unelected bureaucrats" as a delegitimizing pejorative is risible. Do yourself a favour and read Michael Lewis's The Fifth Risk. The EU's civil servants are, by and large, an exceptionally talented bunch of people, most of whom are multilingual in addition to being experts in the fields they were hired for. As for their having power, it's subject to democratic constraint. Maybe you should inform…

> We'll regulate as we see fit in the EU. Businesses that don't like it are welcome and free to go do business elsewhere.

I predict that if the US foreign policy elite deems it desirable that Google operate in Europe, then Google will operate in Europe. The US based empire is happy to let the EU regulate cheese and wine, but when it comes to geopolitics they keep them on a tight leash. The Ukraine affair has shown that beyond all doubt. Hats off to the French though for rejecting permanent occupying forces under De Gaulle and never letting them back.

It's nice to pretend that GDPR somehow struck a blow against corporate overreach, but in reality it was permitted because it didn't degrade the value of Big Tech for the Intelligence Community.

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