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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#381

Post by RHSeeger »

rubicon33 wrote: post #240
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

> WFH for years can result in a serious mental health decline. If you think you're doing fine after 1 year, come see me after 5. You'll realize by the end of it just how important water cooler conversation is for your BRAIN

I've worked from home 100%, worked from an office 100%, and worked a combination. Overall, I think the combination is best. However, having put in somewhere on the order of 15 years fully remote, it has not caused any problems for me. I chat with people via IM, including both purely social and problem solving discussions. I've been on teams where everyone was remote and ones where I was the only remote, and in areas in between.

Overall, working remotely is good for some people and not for others; much like every other arrange. It takes skill and effort to get good at, just as in person social interactions do. Some companies make it easier than others.

It's a complicated topic, and I really don't think it's possible to say "it's good" or "it's bad", only "it depends".

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#382

Post by RHSeeger »

iab wrote: post #249
rubicon33 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

I always thought I would be a sure-fit for permanent WFH, but your comment absolutely nails it. My biggest problem is that a large proportion of interactions with remote work is formal, in a sense. No casual chat, no social “grease”. If you started a remote-only job in a pandemic, it is so easy to become disconnected, and disincentivized with colleagues that only exist in 2D asking for PR reviews. Really did a number…

> a large proportion of interactions with remote work is formal, in a sense. No casual chat, no social “grease”.

Why? You have to put in the effort to be social, but you need to do that in person, too.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#383

Post by veilrap »

gnulinux wrote: post #122
BrissyCoder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person I’m sure I’m not the only person who has the exact opposite experience with this. I can’t think and get mentally blocked when I have someone peering over my shoulder or I’m staring at their screen. I find this kind of collaboration so much easier if I’m in the comfort of my own desktop setup, sharing the screen over Te…

I think this has to do with seniority. When I was a lot more experienced than my coworker, doing pair programming was insanely fun. Because it felt like solving a puzzle with a friend, or exploring a video game with my sister. Now I'm occasionally pair programming with my manager -- who's like a 1000x me -- pair programming is mentally blocking. It's because my peer thinks so much faster than I do that it feels like…

I find this very interesting, because I'm in a similar boat, pretty senior, but not the top of the ladder. But for me some of my favorite pair programming sessions are with people who are operating on another level. It really gets the brain juices going.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#384

Post by astrange »

easton wrote: post #337
astrange wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software pays less than other FAANGs but there also aren’t constant exec sex scandals like other FAANGs. CPUs pay slightly better than other places.

Why are there less sex scandals?

Think the question is why Google has more.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#385

Post by rblatz »

dcolkitt wrote: post #359
calvinmorrison wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend 150$+ per month on AC and heat because of the pandemic. I spent ~30$ in gas a month commuting. I could even walk if my bike didn't work. Personally I like the free AC. Once you optimize your job to be close to your home, many of the benefits of wfh disappear.

$150 extra from 40 hours of AC is insanely high. That's about what I pay total in the middle of summer in Florida for a decent-size SFH. Check the insulation on your house for a leak. Also maybe consider upgrading to a ductless heat pump mini split. That would almost certainly cut your marginal cost to near $30/month.

My electric hits $400+ a month in the summer and it’s just going to get worse when our pool is completed. I live in a new 2500 square foot house in Arizona, our insulation is fine. And we have two pretty nice heat pump/ac units.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#386

Post by analog31 »

gnicholas wrote: post #282
heavyset_go wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

I think a possible generalization is that each of us optimizes for what's important / possible in our lives and jobs. We never really knew how to impute the economic value of those things in the first place, but simply followed heuristics and cultural habits. And then the pandemic took all of our assumptions, and threw them out the window.

In my case, my family prepares almost all of our own food anyway. And more than a few days of eating prepared food begins to affect my health. But that doesn't mean a worker who lives on prepared food wouldn't value the benefit of free food at work.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#387

Post by heavyset_go »

ashtonkem wrote: post #354
heavyset_go wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Commutes also cost the one thing we can't get back; time.

Sometimes people say they're making a time trade off for more money, and plan to use that money to buy more time.

While money is fungible, time is not. You can't buy more time with your kids while they're young if they're already grown. You can't buy more time with someone who has passed away. And you can't buy your way out of missed opportunities in your personal life, once they've gone they're gone.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#388

Post by zebnyc »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

WFH has been much better for our lives and I am not looking forward to going back. These are how WFH has benefited us:

The wife: Does chores / cooking and baking while she is just a participant in a meeting. Go for a run before picking up the kid from daycare

Myself: I can drop the kid off at daycare, do chores around the house, do HIIT workout multiple times during the week. Try body hacking like intermittent fasting / prolonged fasting

We take naps to recharge if we are tired. We also go enjoy nature & hike practically every week which is naturally therapeutic.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#389

Post by geodel »

heavyset_go wrote: post #190
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:

This might be technically correct. But realistically I'd count only working hours. 200 working days and roughly 2 hr commute for me a day. So it is about 400 hr commute to work/home i.e ~50 work days spent in commute.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#390

Post by dcolkitt »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #98
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

My enjoyment of remote work has varied heavily based on the company culture, the type of work, and even my own evolving life circumstances. Having gone back and forth between in-office and WFH and between IC and manager in both circumstances, I have no doubts that in-office work is more productive than WFH. The only exceptions are when the office environment is truly terrible. WFH is more productive than being in an…

The academic research does not validate your gut assessment.[1] Remote work in 2020 was associated with a significant increase in worker productivity.

[1]https://nbloom.people.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj4746/...

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