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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#101

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

My enjoyment of remote work has varied heavily based on the company culture, the type of work, and even my own evolving life circumstances.

Having gone back and forth between in-office and WFH and between IC and manager in both circumstances, I have no doubts that in-office work is more productive than WFH.

The only exceptions are when the office environment is truly terrible. WFH is more productive than being in an office full of constant distractions, or an office with broken HVAC in 90-degree heat, or an office with a bully executive who enjoyed yelling at people. In those circumstances, WFH was simply a partial band-aid over a company that didn’t care enough about employees to treat them right. Eventually the interrupters learn how to ping you on Slack 20 times a day or the office bully realizes that they can terrorize people remotely at 9PM. WFH didn’t solve any problems, it just buffered them with distance. The real solution was to switch to a company that cared.

That’s not to say that WFH can’t work. It can be made to work, but we need to be honest that it adds overhead and inefficiencies that must be compensated for. Given a choice between in-office and full remote, the same team will be more efficient in-person.

Candidly, I suspect many employees feel the same way. However, it’s becoming taboo to question the superiority or WFH in online discussions because the WFH fans are very defensive about their preference.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#102

Post by aikinai »

jolux wrote: post #87
aikinai wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment might make sense in a completely different context, but this is Apple! Everyone there could be making more money for less stress somewhere else, but they’re at Apple since they believe in or appreciate something else about the company, whether that’s the vision, the colleagues, the hard problems, etc. Apple is probably the number one company where your comment is not true.

Less stress probably, but don’t they pay pretty well?

Not compared to peer companies. If you’re already at Apple, you could probably get a job at Google with way less stress and more pay.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#103

Post by BrissyCoder »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person

I’m sure I’m not the only person who has the exact opposite experience with this. I can’t think and get mentally blocked when I have someone peering over my shoulder or I’m staring at their screen. I find this kind of collaboration so much easier if I’m in the comfort of my own desktop setup, sharing the screen over Teams/Skype whatever and communicating verbally over a quality headset.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#104

Post by lizknope »

aikinai wrote: post #70
k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

Your comment might make sense in a completely different context, but this is Apple! Everyone there could be making more money for less stress somewhere else, but they’re at Apple since they believe in or appreciate something else about the company, whether that’s the vision, the colleagues, the hard problems, etc. Apple is probably the number one company where your comment is not true.

Strange.

I will grant you the less stress but Apple opened a new site near one of my company's offices and we have lost quite a few people over the last year to them. Everyone has said they are offering a substantial raise and huge amount of stock.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#105

Post by [deleted] »

pochamago wrote: post #69
k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

[deleted]

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#106

Post by coldtea »

aikinai wrote: post #90
coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

Why does everyone here just assume that everyone’s commute is as bad as theirs? There are many people in the current working generation that avoided the soul-sucking suburban commute from the start.

>Why does everyone here just assume that everyone’s commute is as bad as theirs?

Because statistically it would be representative.

Also because even if the office is next door, you need to get dressed properly, prepare, etc., which eats at least half hour every morning.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#107

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

desine wrote: post #66
version_five wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a religion now, and an important part of testing your adherence is going to be seeing whether you're willing to wear a mask all day at work, tell others how important it is, and cluck and shake your head at the unenlightened (anti-maskers) that disagree with you. I understand this will be perceived as a troll post, but this as absolutely the setup I am seeing.

It’s been a religion from day 1. PCR tests being run at too high of a cycle count was a conspiracy theory until it wasn’t. Hospitals being incentivized to mark any possible patients as COVID cases for extra government money was a conspiracy theory until it wasn’t. Mandatory vaccination with a drug that hasn’t even gotten FDA approval was a theory and yet I see people call for it. People I had had great chats with abo…

We all have, dude. But just like it's not completely rational to inject everyone in the world with a brand new drug that's been rushed to market, it's equally irrational not to try every possible thing we can to stem a once-in-a-century global pandemic killing millions of people and trashing economies.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#108

Post by pezdeath »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

Not everyone's an engineer. Lots of roles work better in person.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#109

Post by throwawaysea »

Not at all a brave or innovative move. These companies are already globally distributed. They have remote sites. And now they have a year of fully remote work under their belt where it has been proven that remote can work. Forcing people into concentrated residential and economic centers instead of giving them the freedom to work from anywhere seems not just backwards (foregoing a way to keep employees happy) but draconian. I wonder how much of this is out of a misplaced sense of control over employees and how much is just them trying to salvage the value of physical offices they are so heavily invested in.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#110

Post by BrissyCoder »

hwbehrens wrote: post #80
coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

I'm obviously an outlier, but I live an 8 minute (peaceful) bike ride from work. I hate commuting, so I optimized for that for this job, and working from home last year was absolutely a net negative for me. Distracting kids, poor work-life balance, more expensive (AC, food, water, etc). I think the lesson here is, some companies can be remote-first, some companies can be in-person, and different employees will prefer…

I don't understand how so many people in this thread are saying they spend more on food while working from home. How is this possible? Does it vary by country? In Australia at least it is orders of magnitude less expensive to prepare food at home purchased from a supermarket than it is to buy food whilst out an about.

Or are these people working for companies that provide food or something. I just don't get it.

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