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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#251

Post by rubicon33 »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand:

There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office.

The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural and procedural changes.

Lastly, WFH for years can result in a serious mental health decline. If you think you're doing fine after 1 year, come see me after 5. You'll realize by the end of it just how important water cooler conversation is for your BRAIN. You'll recognize just how bad it can be to see (as a function of your time alive) MOSTLY just your home. It does a number on you.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#252

Post by colinmorelli »

pseudalopex wrote: post #194
filleduchaos wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is painfully asocial - and I say this as a rather asocial person myself who's only ever held remote or remote-friendly roles. I couldn't imagine wilfully remaining at a job with coworkers so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.

Preferring to spend time with friends and family is normal. It doesn't mean someone's coworkers are so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.

That very sentence has already suggested that your coworkers are not your friends (or else they'd be in the group of "friends and family" that you enjoy spending time with).

I think the very point of GP is that there are many people who do, in fact, develop friendships with their coworkers.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#253

Post by treespace8 »

colinmorelli wrote: post #58
andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

I do think expecting every employee to sit in an office for 8 hours a day every day is almost certainly unnecessary. That said, I also think it's unfair and disingenuous to suggest that there's absolutely no value whatsoever to colocation. It's possible that we can replicate much of the physical interaction's value through fully remote work, but my experience is that we're not there yet. It really depends on the work…

The more I read these conversations it becomes clear your position depends on where you are in the introvert / extrovert scale.

Some people get a lot of energy from interacting one on one with others. These tend to be the loudest voices in any office.

But so many people who are more introvered have just forced themselves to adapt.

I guess what I'm trying to say, for everyone that wants to get back to the office, many of us had wanted to get out for a very long time.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#255

Post by jjeaff »

rubicon33 wrote: post #251
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#256

Post by Buttons840 »

swiley wrote: post #127
pochamago wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

>There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them You can do this without forcing them to be around you. That's apparently a new concept to a lot of people.

Yes, I very much enjoy my co-workers. Several nights a week I find myself lying in bed and notice I'm grinning while thinking about some jokes or fun we've had together. We all work 100% remote.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#257

Post by lamontcg »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

You're engaging in the fallacy of "what is good for me is good for everyone else."

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#258

Post by faitswulff »

Of all the tech giants, I understand Apple's insistence on returning to the office the most due to their secrecy, even from other departments. IIRC I've heard tales of people being blindfolded before being taken to skunkworks engineering projects.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#259

Post by justapassenger »

ferdowsi wrote: post #75
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone. When I look back on hallway conversations, I can't think of many that really mattered. Actual important decisions are typically not made by IC engineers. Relevant conversations are usually inside team structures and not spontaneous.

Depends on the company. In my case, all transforming ideas I had and were able to later push successfully were a result of hallway/lunch conversations with coworkers from other teams. It gave me ability to see a lot of problems through their eyes, that informed my decisions.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#260

Post by iab »

rubicon33 wrote: post #251
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

I always thought I would be a sure-fit for permanent WFH, but your comment absolutely nails it. My biggest problem is that a large proportion of interactions with remote work is formal, in a sense. No casual chat, no social “grease”. If you started a remote-only job in a pandemic, it is so easy to become disconnected, and disincentivized with colleagues that only exist in 2D asking for PR reviews. Really did a number on me.
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