Live data from Hacker News

Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

theverge.com

291–300 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#291
post #72
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a backwards traditionalist but I prefer to keep social skill development that has worked for millennia.

What we now call "school" has barely existed for centuries, let alone millennia. Pretty sure kids were much better socialized prior to our current state of primary education.

Pretty sure these school-less kids spent all day with their parents, siblings, cousins and peers instead of staring at a video lecture.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#292
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

You're engaging in the fallacy of "what is good for me is good for everyone else."

I didn't read that from the post you're referring to.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#293
Outside of a handful of startups, I've been partially to fully remote my entire career (goes back awhile) much of that international. I don't need hallway conversations. I need to work with the tools that I have to build trust and relationships. I could give two shits if someone 2-3 levels above me wants to see my face now and then - so long as they know who I am, what impact I have had, and that's backed up by colleagues.

The funny thing with Covid was many companies that were "in office required" and allowed remove because of covid - had employees (including management) gloating about how they wouldn't go back to X, etc. One such company happens to be based in the PNW. Once HR issued the memo - people back in a hybrid model - the bravado shut up really quickly.

My current role requires I know people across regions, across time zones, and work along side them effectively for both parties. That is something I've done my whole career.

My role was primarily remote before covid and that won't be changing. The travel, the interactions, bonding will return. Is an office needed for that? No. Structured face time is.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#294
post #188
post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

45 minutes means an hour and a half of your life every day that you don't get paid for and have to just throw away. (not only that but spending it doing one of the more dangerous things you can do in the US: driving.) That combined with the ridiculous housing costs in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely.

> makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely

Honest question: are there a substantial number of remote companies paying bay area FAANG salaries? You put in any decent time at these places and your total comp is at least $300-500k/yr.

You'd have to move somewhere really cheap for the math to work out in favor of that remote gig if you're leaving $100-300k on the table. Being in a place without state income tax moves the needle quite a bit, but you're still likely to come out behind.

Caveat emptor: lifestyle changes this math a lot.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#295
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

I’m on year five and I LOVE it - I never want to go back to an office, sure, maybe it’s better for the company but you know what’s better for me? WFH. I have more time for myself and to see family and friends, I co work with friends, and instead of commuting j make meals and I work with my cats all day long.

Maybe you like the office more and can’t make wfh work, not everyone can! But don’t assume everyone else is like you

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#296
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day.

If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up working more hours during the pandemic, [1] then that erases some/all of the gains of not commuting.

1: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/11/24/people-a...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#297
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation

Yes, we had similar results in my coven.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#298
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So can vaccinated people.

Sure, but the probability of that happening is much, much lower, to the point of it being not worth protecting against, for the most part.

Not really. Singapore is finding quite a few infections among the vaccinated. Sure, they don't get severe disease, but they do spread disease.

https://mothership.sg/2021/06/mindsville-napiri-covid-19/

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#299
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I feel the same. Aside from the interpersonal benefits, the perks of the office are real monetary value. A lot of us don’t have terrible commutes and these benefits outweigh the cost of commute time.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#300

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

More like sunk in cost of a HR department/Property management department

The people making these decisions wouldn't have jobs if the "company culture" was all remote.

Post reply on HN