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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think expecting every employee to sit in an office for 8 hours a day every day is almost certainly unnecessary. That said, I also think it's unfair and disingenuous to suggest that there's absolutely no value whatsoever to colocation. It's possible that we can replicate much of the physical interaction's value through fully remote work, but my experience is that we're not there yet. It really depends on the work…

The more I read these conversations it becomes clear your position depends on where you are in the introvert / extrovert scale. Some people get a lot of energy from interacting one on one with others. These tend to be the loudest voices in any office. But so many people who are more introvered have just forced themselves to adapt. I guess what I'm trying to say, for everyone that wants to get back to the office, many…

> The more I read these conversations it becomes clear your position depends on where you are in the introvert / extrovert scale.

In which direction?

As a strongly introverted person myself, I would expect that working from home would be easier for extroverts than introverts during normal times. Extroverts make friends more easily wherever they go, while introverts rely more on structured interactions such as work in their social life. Take the office away, and the introvert who has recently relocated may not know anyone in the area.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#372
post #261
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s plenty of pointless and counterproductive things we insist our children do that we do not mandate for adults.

Wearing a mask when around others during a pandemic is neither pointless nor counterproductive.

I believe his intention was pointing out that forcing kids go to school and be enforce them to wear masks is pointless and counterproductive.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#373
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I often do/did paired programming

I think this is the only point in your list that is actually fundamental, the rest can be remediated by relatively simple lifestyle changes. If you like pair programming, then there is an almost certain probability that you'll prefer the office over remote. There is literally nothing one can do remote to replace the kind of in person interaction that pairing or over the shoulder reviews give you.

I personally paired full time for a few years and I hate it with the heat of a thousand sons. Between pair programming and getting a low paid service job, I'd take the latter. The fact that WFH lets me cut out at-work social interactions that cause me severe distress is a benefit I will never give up.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to backfire hard as soon as one disgruntled employee decides that, when faced with the choice of being forced to come into an office they can't stand being in or losing their source of income and ending up homeless, takes the third option of bringing an AR-15 to work, shooting up their workplace, and turning the gun on themselves. Desperate people do desperate things, and mark my words, we will see a ma…

That feels... unrealistic. Apple pays well, and the folks who work there are likely able to find another job like... tomorrow. I doubt there are many financially desperate, mentally unstable people working there. That said, I suppose it could occur at some other type of job. But pinning that on the CEOs is really unfair. People had a job presumably where they went into an office. The companies decided, or were forced…

> Now that anyone who wants a vaccine is vaccinated in most places, it's not 'evil' to ask people to come back.

Just because it's not 'evil' doesn't mean it's not stupid. If someone isn't performing, separation probably makes sense.

But it shouldn't be because they've woken up and realized that being in an office all day is a soul sucking exercise that they'd rather avoid.

I firmly believe this will all level out with people deciding to do what is best for them, because too many people have had the opportunity to realize how much better life is without a commute and physical restraints around where they do their work.

(Side point: the idea that anyone who wants a vaccine can get one is incredibly privileged, myopic, and fundamentally wrong. Stare long and hard at this: https://blogs.imf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/pandemic-pl...)

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#375
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Commutes also cost the one thing we can't get back; time.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#377

Apple employees should quit. The market is red hot, I get more recruiter spam then ever, no way I'm putting up with in person work ever again

Recruiter spam doesn’t mean they’ll pay like Apple does.

I’ve had many offers in the last couple months and only one were offering something comparable to $400k/yr.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#378

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

I still struggle to tell if CEOs are lying to our faces, or whether they've become delusional with their time on top.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#379
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a first approximation, no one is spending $60/day on restaurant meals unless they're traveling.

When Dropbox served food I valued it at 50k, ie: in order fro a company to poach me, given they don't have food, that's 50k they'd have to make up for. While I don't spend anywhere near 4k a month on food, there were a few things to consider: a) 3 meals prepared for me saves me time and money. I love to cook but I don't have tons of time anymore and I don't have a a good kitchen. If I want to save time via delivery I…

I guess I just can't comprehend a mindset where 3 meals a day at a company is this huge win. On the occasions when I went into an office with a non-free cafeteria, I didn't even always eat lunch.

ADDED: This subthread to me is such a bizarre look into a certain bubble of SV. [See also apparent disagreements with the statement that spending $60/day in restaurants is somehow abnormal.]

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

I spend 150$+ per month on AC and heat because of the pandemic. I spent ~30$ in gas a month commuting. I could even walk if my bike didn't work. Personally I like the free AC. Once you optimize your job to be close to your home, many of the benefits of wfh disappear.

$150 extra from 40 hours of AC is insanely high. That's about what I pay total in the middle of summer in Florida for a decent-size SFH. Check the insulation on your house for a leak. Also maybe consider upgrading to a ductless heat pump mini split. That would almost certainly cut your marginal cost to near $30/month.
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