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Be Kind

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Re: Be Kind

#351

Post by Ntrails »

bootload wrote: post #228
ffn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, totally this. Moreover, I'd like to add anonymously down-voting / reporting someone's opinion just because it's not yours is just as mean-spirited as calling someone names. Every internet message board has its own culture with its own take on what's "right" and what's "wrong", and on HN (and reddit) the institutionally accepted way of being mean is misusing the downvoting / flagkilling system to attempt to bleep…

"Yes, totally this. Moreover, I'd like to add anonymously down-voting / reporting someone's opinion just because it's not yours is just as mean-spirited as calling someone names." I've stopped up/down voting all together for similar reasons.

I'd always assumed the intent was to vote when you feel something contributes to the discussion, or is particularly relevant.

For example, upvoting when a subject matter expert gives some context, or the person offers a comment that you found interesting. Conversely downvoting when there is a "me too"/contentless comment.

Personally I most commonly find myself downvoting what I would describe as either rhetoric or offensive.

Re: Be Kind

#352

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

latchkey wrote: post #144
mkramlich wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well said I basically stopped commenting (well, except now -- doh) here on HN because of how frequently I saw toxic responses and punishment down-voting. There are a noisy subset of users here who either (a) can't understand or respect generalizations, especially based on older/real-life experience, or (b) demand "proof" for any claim, or (c) will punish any kind of not-narrowly-PC statement. And then the blatantly r…

What if you could see who downvoted you? I'd be less annoyed by a downvote from pg, because I probably deserved it, than a downvote from someone completely random, who I might not care about. In some ways, I also wish downvoting cost you a point like it does on stackoverflow.

Seeing who downvoted you sounds like a good idea. Spending karma to downvote however - I see your point, but trolls or noise still needs to be punished, not sure people would still do that enough.

I don't agree with your "argument from authority" though - even pg can be wrong sometimes...

Re: Be Kind

#354

Post by nashashmi »

ck425 wrote: post #336
kabouseng wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi this sounds like a really interesting book. Would you mind sharing the link to the book on Amazon, searching for the "the multiplier" gives three possible books you might be talking about :D. Thanks in advance.

I think this is the book he's referring to: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multipliers-Best-Leaders-Everyone-Sm...

Yup that is the one.

Re: Be Kind

#355

Post by jasonwocky »

pekk wrote: post #282
jasonwocky wrote: post #173

I dunno. I'm not a big fan of the "be kind" angle on things. Too often that translates to, "Withhold the feedback you have for fear that you'll upset the other person." Or, "Don't tell anyone that you think you have a better idea than the one someone else is championing." I generally think that people are "too kind" at work in a lot of ways, and it leads to a lot of grousing and internal stress on the part of the peo…

It would be useful if people carefully considered their real motivations for their feedback, and whether it was really all correct and relevant. Feedback which hasn't passed a strong internal filter for whether it is basically constructive, objective and well-informed isn't worth voicing and really should be withheld. So I like that you say "be thoughtful."

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of the thoughtfulness you describe. I don't like it when people shroud rudeness & cognitive miserliness as "just calling things like they see them." I prefer "See it, think about it, then call it."

I really value honesty, but not every emotion-laden thought that passes through our heads deserves airtime.

Re: Be Kind

#356

Post by parasubvert »

pellaeon wrote: post #332
parasubvert wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had problems with this when younger, and I can point you in two directions: 1. Empathy. This is about understanding others. I think this is 80% of "being kind". It's a learnable skill. I learned through books and trial and error, though lately I suggest this book "Empathy: why it matters and how to get it". http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HDMMEP2 2. Observe/Listen. Many conversations we are planning our next point…

> Many conversations we are planning our next point rather than really deeply observing and listening to the other person I often hear similiar suggestions to be empathic on others, but I find it difficult in practice too. To deeply observe others and to understand their points and to accurately express my points all at the same time is hard for me. Simply considering phrasing and planning my points alone is mentally…

Yes, this all can be improved with practice. But it also means caring differently about the outcome of communication. Like it might take more than one conversation, or it might not matter all that much if you can't get your ideas across to the other person this particular moment.

I find I argue a lot less with people as I get older unless I really know the person, because it's so easy to be misinterpreted. I've found that a Socratic approach helps a ton if I'm not thinking straight - asking more questions about the areas I am worried about is easier to form for me when I am not able to articulate a position. By asking questions you are simultaneously showing empathy and communicating your own thoughts.

A lot of it depends on the situation and past history - sometimes people are in need of a full bore reality check and don't need much empathy. :)

Other times it helps if you care less about the outcome of the conversation - ie. It's okay to defer the issue to give you time to think. Or to just let the other person "win", if the topic isn't all that important.

Anyway I appreciate you sharing the experience, it made me reflect on how I have changed.

Re: Be Kind

#357

Post by roflc0ptic »

HolyHaddock wrote: post #313
mreiland wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it Nadya's responsibility to persuade or convince?

A reasonable question. Perhaps it's not and there's no reason for anyone to take any time to say anything when someone's wrong. But if they do take that time and say something, then it's not unreasonable to consider the goal. Is it to demonstrate superiority and massage ego? Unkindness works well. If it's to help someone correct a mistake, do better next time or bring their conversational partners thinking closer to…

I really like this response.

I especially like that you validate their question and then convincingly explore the nuance to the situation, framing your response around their question. Then you make your ultimate position subjective ("Personally, I prefer...") instead of trying to make it some objective truth ("it's better to be kind."), which allows that the others person's position is also subjective - merely a personal preference - and thus changeable.

A+, effective communication.

Re: Be Kind

#358

Post by kabouseng »

ck425 wrote: post #336
kabouseng wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi this sounds like a really interesting book. Would you mind sharing the link to the book on Amazon, searching for the "the multiplier" gives three possible books you might be talking about :D. Thanks in advance.

I think this is the book he's referring to: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multipliers-Best-Leaders-Everyone-Sm...

Thanks, added to my reading list.

Re: Be Kind

#360

Post by [deleted] »

rootlocus wrote: post #347
doorhammer wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not much, but when I see posts that are downvoted for no discernable reason (assuming good faith on the poster), I'll usually throw them an upvote to bring them a bit out of grey. It's not much, but if I'm having a crap day and something I say it getting downvoted, I feel a little better when it ticks up a notch, knowing at least one person isn't trying to just bomb my post. It's basically the tiniest little gif…

> It's not much, but if I'm having a crap day and something I say it getting downvoted, I feel a little better when it ticks up a notch, knowing at least one person isn't trying to just bomb my post. It's basically the tiniest little gift I like to give to people, heh. I think you're too concerned about what strangers think and do around the internet. Most people will "bomb" your subjective side of the argument (the…

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