Be Kind • Hacker News Board

Re: Be Kind

#331

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:51 AM UTC

mfukar wrote: post #330

YTc0YjY4MzBl wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every interaction in life is a transaction of some sort." What about when a mother kisses her baby's head? What about when a friend offers a hug to someone who has just lost a loved one? What about when a kid gives a friendly smile to the kid who always gets bullied? Are those transactions? Did those people get "good deals"? Now I'm just some hyperbole-prone kid who isn't qualified to give advice to a Life Veteran l…

> What about when a mother kisses her baby's head? What about when a friend offers a hug to someone who has just lost a loved one? What about when a kid gives a friendly smile to the kid who always gets bullied? Well, there are the obvious ones: evolutionarily beneficial responses. Still transactions, unconsciously working for the benefit of the species. The others are more selfish. Obviously not angry or malicious,…

[deleted]

Re: Be Kind

#332

Post by pellaeon » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:53 AM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #217

iamcreasy wrote: post #194

I am an Engineering major(I have been programming since I was 13), and I have a bad habit of over-analyzing everything. I never skim over the details, and I always try to dig into a topic as much as I can to make sure my interpretations are correct. Because of this attitude, I can not enjoy fantasy novels. They ask me to bridge the gap between multiple paragraphs with insufficient information. But at the same time, I…

I had problems with this when younger, and I can point you in two directions: 1. Empathy. This is about understanding others. I think this is 80% of "being kind". It's a learnable skill. I learned through books and trial and error, though lately I suggest this book "Empathy: why it matters and how to get it". http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HDMMEP2 2. Observe/Listen. Many conversations we are planning our next point…

> Many conversations we are planning our next point rather than really deeply observing and listening to the other person

I often hear similiar suggestions to be empathic on others, but I find it difficult in practice too. To deeply observe others and to understand their points and to accurately express my points all at the same time is hard for me. Simply considering phrasing and planning my points alone is mentally exhausting enough. (I admit my verbal skill is not that good.) Let alone to mention considering others' feelings.

I did try to think about others' feelings, then I found myself having to pause and think (which is not so good for a conversation), sometimes forgetting others' points, and sometimes making less clear, reasonable, persuasive points.

Just sharing my experience, I guess this all could be improved by practice. Though I'd be thrilled for some tips.

Re: Be Kind

#333

Post by aninhumer » Wed, May 13, 2015, 9:59 AM UTC

roflc0ptic wrote: post #57

btilly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Text does not communicate tone" is a huge problem. You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face. Being kind can be more concise. Here is an example that my fiance recently pointed out... I think the single biggest mistake people make in communication is reminding the other person they are incorrect when that does not change the content. "As I told you Monday, the rea…

Based off of my vague memory, in "How To Win Friends and Influence People", one main point is not to contradict people. In text or in person, never tell someone they're wrong. In general, when I want to correct someone's understanding I frame it as a failure of my own understanding. Like, hey, I'm the asshole here, would you do me a favor by going over this one more time for me? This is great because it allows the ot…

>I frame it as a failure of my own understanding

I think the best way to get into the habit of doing this is to actually believe it. Respect the people around you enough that you consider your own misunderstanding as likely a reason for disagreement as theirs. Constructive communication then comes completely naturally, instead of feeling forced.

Re: Be Kind

#334

Post by crottypeter » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:08 AM UTC

roflc0ptic wrote: post #57

btilly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Text does not communicate tone" is a huge problem. You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face. Being kind can be more concise. Here is an example that my fiance recently pointed out... I think the single biggest mistake people make in communication is reminding the other person they are incorrect when that does not change the content. "As I told you Monday, the rea…

Based off of my vague memory, in "How To Win Friends and Influence People", one main point is not to contradict people. In text or in person, never tell someone they're wrong. In general, when I want to correct someone's understanding I frame it as a failure of my own understanding. Like, hey, I'm the asshole here, would you do me a favor by going over this one more time for me? This is great because it allows the ot…

Dilbert is trying that approach http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-05-13

Re: Be Kind

#335

Post by ryan-allen » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:16 AM UTC

I don't necessarily think I'm 'that great engineer', but I sure could take this advice.

Re: Be Kind

#336

Post by ck425 » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:23 AM UTC

kabouseng wrote: post #329

nashashmi wrote: post #234

I am sorry I did not come across this submission sooner today. There are lots of opinions being passed around here, and all of those opinions are being framed from the point the OP focused on: kindness. I am not sure if kindness is the right remedy. In fact I don't know what the right remedy is. But my insight is a little different here. These past couple of years I have been slowly reading a book called "The Multipl…

Hi this sounds like a really interesting book. Would you mind sharing the link to the book on Amazon, searching for the "the multiplier" gives three possible books you might be talking about :D. Thanks in advance.

I think this is the book he's referring to:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multipliers-Best-Leaders-Everyone-Sm...

Re: Be Kind

#337

Post by kaybe » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:28 AM UTC

cma wrote: post #306

ffn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, totally this. Moreover, I'd like to add anonymously down-voting / reporting someone's opinion just because it's not yours is just as mean-spirited as calling someone names. Every internet message board has its own culture with its own take on what's "right" and what's "wrong", and on HN (and reddit) the institutionally accepted way of being mean is misusing the downvoting / flagkilling system to attempt to bleep…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

Well so he says, but is it useful? When downvoting means two different things, it is hard to discern what is meant. I usually vote with 'helpful'/'I learnt something new' and 'not helpful'/'wasted my time in a mean manner'. I also don't see how one could only want comments one agrees with at the top - you learn less, and there might be less of a discussion. (Maybe I misunderstood pg's intention here?)

One could argue for another voting just for agreement/disagreement that wouldn't impact the positioning and colour of the comments, because seeing HN's opinions is also interesting. It would however add another layer of complexity.

Re: Be Kind

#338

Post by borski » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:29 AM UTC

This is hard. It's something I struggle with because once you get the hang of it, it's actually pretty easy to convince other people to like you; it takes time to learn that too, but once you have the patterns down it's not that bad.

What is infinitely harder is /actually/ respecting other people's opinions and beliefs, rather than simply making them think you are. These aren't the same thing, and are easy to confuse, in my experience. Be really careful, on your journey, to be watchful of that. I screwed that up and am still trying to figure out where the line lies.

Re: Be Kind

#339

Post by Udo » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:35 AM UTC

glinia wrote: post #222

athenot wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it easier to be kind when I try to see things from the perspective of the other person. I quickly put myself in their position & try to understand what would be helpful and what would be counter-productive. Observing and listening to others goes a long way. That needy coworker that's annoying may be craving affirmation: smile when appropriate and avoid blaming their identity for their actions ("you failed" vs.…

Agreed @ perspective-hopping. It definitely helps to consider every stakeholder's viewpoint when making a decision. Also: I've heard the "kindness version" of the religious saying: "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them." Of course, taken to extremes this is a bad idea. But it definitely helps to get into that mindset.

> "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them."

The problem with this version is that it requires interpretation of another person's intentions and attitude - something we're exceptionally bad at and which is causing a lot of drama simply through misinterpretation.

The version that says "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself." does not have this problem. Furthermore it scales better because you have to perform the underlying calculation only once as opposed to once per encounter. I get that this approach does not provide any guidance for handling abusive people, but I would argue they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. In all other cases, treating people like you would like to be treated should be a reasonable default.

Re: Be Kind

#340

Post by kaybe » Wed, May 13, 2015, 10:36 AM UTC

jorgearturo wrote: post #171

fr0styMatt2 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the upvote/downvote system here provides enough feedback to the person being voted. There just isn't the information there. For the longest time I was confused at seeing down-voted comments because I mentally assumed that downvotes mean "this is a troll comment / this is some kind of abusive comment". Not so. Also (and I've said this before so apologies for repeating myself!), if downvotes do mean 'disa…

I agree with you.IMHO, graying out text is a way to convey censorship. Allowing each individual to configure his HN experience sounds positive to me. I like reading controversial opinions just like you. For me, it's both a way to challenge my worldview and a way to understand a particular community better.

This has been discussed before (well, the general configuration for users). The main argument against it was that not having a common experience in the core elements makes it very hard for the community to stay coherent (which is given as desirable) and have good discussions.

Eg when I don't know how you perceive the comments in the vicinity of the discussion, it is harder for me to understand your comment's intentions and finer points.

Of course this doesn't apply to peripherical features such as the colour of the header bar.