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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#301

Post by hackyhacky »

firesteelrain wrote: post #227
achristmascarl wrote: post #25

I wonder what avenues there are for Harvard to challenge this; it looks like the mechanism the Trump Admin used was for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to cancel Harvard's Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP) certification [0] which is managed by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) [1]. Does ICE just have full discretion over SEVP? Can they do this to any school for whatever reason they want? […

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1372, the SEVIS (Student and Exchange Visitor Information System) program requires schools to report data on international students including what DHS has been asking for. Harvard may argue that DHS’s request was overly broad, lacked due process, or sought information beyond what the law permits. 8 CFR § 214.3(g) and § 214.4(b), which require schools to maintain and furnish records “as required by th…

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#302

Post by ceejayoz »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #288
ceejayoz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they accidentally sent at least one person there already? Who remains there, despite SCOTUS ordering his return? https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf > Instead of hastening to correct its egregious error, the Government dismissed it as an “oversight.” > The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate” Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his c…

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> International students are on the Meng Wanzhou end of things.

The vast majority of them (of which there are over a million) don't have a Wikipedia page, nor are they "Deputy chairwoman and CFO" of a company as big as Huawei.

Rumeysa Ozturk sat in jail for six weeks for writing an op-ed. I assure you, there are plenty of international students you can mistreat without causing a major diplomatic incident.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#303

Post by edaemon »

legitster wrote: post #140

Anyone who thinks they are immune or on the "good side" of this political movement is naive. Harvard has cranked out plenty of powerful conservatives, but it doesn't matter because their "crime" is that they have hurt the current administration's feelings. This is going well beyond one party winning - this is a cult of personality. History is repeating itself as a farce. It's not wild speculation to guess what might…

To illustrate your point, three of the current justices on the Supreme Court earned their law degree from Harvard: Jackson, Gorsuch, and (Chief Justice) Roberts.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#304

Post by ajross »

alephnerd wrote: post #245
neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

> Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. Harvard and Yale didn't hire the right lobbyists [0][1][2] The other universities like Dartmouth, MIT, and public university systems did. One of the side effect of being large endowment private universities meant Harvard and Yale remained extremely insular and concentrated on donor relations over government…

That is just shockingly cynical. We're facing a situation where a sitting government feels empowered to go to war against an elite university solely over the speech it doesn't like to hear on its campus.

And your response is to dismiss it all as a kerfuffle over "bad lobbying" and "inter-elite fratricide"? Really?

Surely there are existing institutions of some form or another you'd like to see not made enemies of the state. You don't maybe see a principle at work here beyond your personal dislike of academia?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#305

Post by josefresco »

lupusreal wrote: post #139
neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

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Yes, and it's because they wrote big checks: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizat...

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#306

Post by HEmanZ »

sva_ wrote: post #122
tintor wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or 8+ years

He will already have serves his second (and therefore last) term, or what do you mean?

I find it unlikely but…

Much of my extended family would absolutely join a civil war on side Trump to get him into a permanent position of power if given the opportunity. Some of them are in the military. So it’s not unreasonable by world history standards that he could get a subset of the military on his side in a coup scenario.

I think people in large urban centers or outside of the US don’t realize how much certain parts of the country truly worship him above anything else. I know many people like this, I have to see them at family events, so you can’t tell me it’s an exaggeration. I’m not sure there are enough to do anything substantial, but the seeds are there.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#307

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #66

I get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.

Why would you want a valid argument for holding a voter responsible for the actions of representatives? Arguments have nothing to do with it. Just hold them responsible, or not, for any reason. It makes no difference.

Voters don't really choose a representative. They are given choices. Two choices, of which, let's face it, most people will just pick whichever one is on "their side". Those choices are created by outside forces. And those choices, once chosen, will do... whatever the hell they want. There's no consequence to them doing whatever the hell they want. So it doesn't really matter what the choice is to begin with. You're as likely to get what you want by praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster as by voting. The "choices" are just gonna do whatever the hell they want anyway. Whether you get what you want or not is incidental.

But let's assume you do hold somebody responsible for choosing something they have no control over. What does that mean to "hold them responsible" ? You gonna actually do something? Throw them in jail? Kill them? Probably not. You're probably just gonna say nasty things about them on Facebook. Which you could do at any time, for any reason. So who gives a shit what the argument is? It makes no difference to anything at all. You might as well ask for a valid argument for why the sky is blue. Ain't gonna change the sky.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#309

Post by dragonwriter »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #288
ceejayoz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they accidentally sent at least one person there already? Who remains there, despite SCOTUS ordering his return? https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf > Instead of hastening to correct its egregious error, the Government dismissed it as an “oversight.” > The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate” Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his c…

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> They sent a Salvadoran who nobody cared about to El Salvador.

They sent a lot of people, mostly not Salvadoran, to El Salvador [0] without due process, the one Salvadoran just gets covered more in the news because, as well as the issues applicable to the others, he had a existing court order prohibiting his deportation to El Salvador specifically.

[0] And they've done or attempted to do that to Libya, South Sudan, and other third countries to whom the deported have no connection, as well.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#310

Post by gosub100 »

lupusreal wrote: post #191
decimalenough wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the Trump admin gives a rat's ass about Jews. It's an excuse for legal action, in the same way that "fentanyl" was the excuse for tariffs on Canada.

This is one part of a large pattern of Republicans trying to end-run around the First Ammendment specifically to defend Israel from criticism. For instance, in Texas they make school teachers sign contracts that include terms forbidding criticism of Israel. Republicans have also been extremely reliable supporters of unconstitutional Anti-BDS laws. Make no mistake, the Republican party (and half the Democratic Party F…

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