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PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

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Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#261

Post by jlgreco »

btilly wrote: post #241
SeanDav wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you have good hearing and/or are incapable of focusing on something else does not make the conversation less private. A private conversation is one that is intended to occur only between the parties involved. Your being able to hear it or not is irrelevant if the intention and expectation was that the conversation is meant to be between specific parties. I understand this is not completely black and whit…

According to her account, their initial jokes were based off of a conversation that she was directly involved in. Based on that fact, in her position I would not have considered their conversation private. Furthermore they continued their discussion while the presenter was talking. That right there is going to annoy people around them, even if they had the most innocent conversation in the world. Which they weren't.…

I can't help but feel that, if she had thought the comments were about her, her response would have been a great deal more.. pointed.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#263

Post by [deleted] »

blhack wrote: post #248
imsofuture wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's amazing to me is the cognitive dissonance required to make the leap from Adria publicly outing someone (questionable, but not egregious given you know, the public venue) making an off-color joke to 'she got these people fired'. Their boss finding out what they said got them fired. Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop.

>Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop. Ha. Hardly. The guy was fired because the company didn't want to deal with the wrath of angry internet armies following along with Adria Richards.

[deleted]

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#264

Post by danielweber »

growse wrote: post #219
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No.

Then why blur faces in some published photos / video footage? I live in the UK, could be a different legal situation here...

Definitely different in the US.

I don't approve of what she did, but there was nothing illegal about it.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#265

Post by tomjen3 »

pyre wrote: post #39
Zikes wrote: post #7

Should this open the door to a discussion about the ethics of public shaming?

Public shaming is a tool in the kit, but in this case it was the first one that she reached for. From her blog post, it sounded like it was out of frustration over other incidences (maybe even worse cases of offence / harassment) that she had also ignored. It was the 'straw that broke the camel's back' so to speak, and unleashed her pent up anger/frustration. Personally, I think that there were other avenues to pursu…

Public shaming is a tri-edged blade with no handle, made of fire. Yes you can wield it, but you are going to get hurt, possibly badly, likely you are going to take somebody who just stood next to you down with you too. If you hurt your intended target, you can't control the degree and it is going to have unintended consequences that you can't stop, let alone control.

Do you really think it should be in the toolkit?

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#266

Post by SallySinep »

donohoe wrote: post #187
SeanDav wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when did it become ok to vilify someone for a private conversation? A private conversation in a public area is still private. This woman was guilty of listening to a private conversation, taking some sort of offence and then going out of her way to publicly shame them. Anyone trying to defend her is not thinking very clearly. If you look at her own posting history she is guilty of off-colour jokes and downright…

The whole thing smacks of hypocrisy and self publication I don't think so. I think she has just made a mistake.

Fabrication of evidence -- referring specifically to the "forking" joke that wasn't -- goes well outside the bounds of making a simple "mistake."

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#267

Post by njharman »

I don't see how penis jokes, fucking jokes, etc. are in anyway sexism, misogyny or otherwise against women. They're against prudes and the sexually repressed. They're inappropriate in some contexts.

If you feel they are sexist, etc. It is you who are being sexist and demeaning cause you've accepted the stereotype that women should be virginal, sexually repressed, are frail and weak needing protected from thoughts of sex, sexual innuendo, etc.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#268

Post by marginalboy »

CodeMage wrote: post #152
ry0ohki wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tweet can be retweeted, it's absolutely meant to be public, while the former was meant to be private. In other words, you are saying one should be more careful about offending others in private conversations then on Twitter?

The fact that the former was meant to be private doesn't grant it a reasonable expectation of privacy. When you're in a public place where you're likely to be overhead, don't expect privacy. More importantly, the issue of privacy is irrelevant to what I was saying. In one situation, you're attending an event and someone is ruining that experience for you. In the other situation, you're reading someone's content by ch…

It is relevant. The entire predicate of this situation was that she is offended by such jokes because they oppress women (a bizarre and utterly arbitrary conclusion, by the way). If an overheard joke made between friends is oppressive to women in her view, then a public tweet of the same nature must also be oppressive to women. It's hypocrisy made plain.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#269

Post by danielweber »

Nrsolis wrote: post #165
giardini wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, it is unacceptable for her or SendGrid to be attacked digitally." She could have simply changed seats but chose to use digital methods to publicly humiliate two people, one of whom was consequently fired apparently. "What's good for the gander is good for the goose." BTW isn't this rather Orwellian? Anything you say anywhere can be dredged into view of the public? Is privacy possible anymore?

Well it seems like the other shoe has dropped: https://www.facebook.com/SendGrid/posts/10151502570463967

As someone said on the [dead] thread, way to make a bad situation even worse.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#270

Post by pimentel »

SallySinep wrote: post #255
pimentel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe a viral picture of a misogynist with the company tshirt would be motivational enough for the company to fire him (maybe summed to other things in him the company didn't like, who knows). Is he really a misogynist jerk? Does not matter: the picture was published to twitter with that message implied. EDIT: I'm not saying he's a misogynist, in fact I think otherwise. What I'm saying is if she implies he is with…

a picture of a misogynist... Jeez. Do you have the raw text of the "dongle" joke available? If not, then on what basis are you labeling this person as a misogynist? Really now -- you're making a specific, and highly charged accusation about this person. If you can't provide substantiation, then you should step back and apologize.

Read my reply to aviraldg's comment. I'm not saying he is a misogynist. I'm saying that as soon as she posted the picture (and blogged and etc) he's as good as a misogynist.
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