We need hosts who will leave this up.
Or just publish the signatures in the newspaper and let various sketchy hosts do their thing.
Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
241–250 of 541 posts
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#242It was a warrant issued by a Spanish court that Github legally had to comply with. You can be angry at the court for issuing such a warrant but you can't be angry at Github for complying. They are not above the law, even if they may disagree with it.
US companies have no legal obligation to comply with a Spanish court order. A MLAT must be arranged and approved before US companies have a legal obligation. GitHub's compliance with the court order was voluntarily and discretionary; just like how if the North Korea courts told me to shut down my site, you have every right to say no.
What happens if you don't comply is that the court would then order all the ISPs to cut the lines to you. All of them.
Also, GitHub happily accepts money from companies in Spain. This mean they have economical activity there and fall under Spanish jurisdiction.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#243Spanish telecommunications operators also blocked access to the Tsunami Democràtic website a few days ago. In both cases due to an ongoing investigation, not based on any conviction.
What's incredible is that a police order is enough to take down an app or website, without any court intervention. Not that Spanish courts are to be trusted on matters like this, but still...
Well, this is pretty normal I'd say. It happens all the time with many different crime investigations...
I wouldn't attack a country's justice system that gratuitously.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#244This makes me feel even better about my decision to abandon GitHub.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#245Are there GitLab instances in neutral countries which are only accessible by Tor? I realize that won't be the most user friendly way of distributing info/apps but could be a start.
How about just a GitLab instance in a neutral country that is accessible by Tor? The perfect doesn't haven't to be the enemy of the good.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worth noting that this conflict has previously had groups who were terrorist (the bomb planting kind).
it's worth noting that spanish over-reactions may be rooted in memories/fears of ETA, which is an entirely different group from an entirely different region also seeking secession. the concern is the "suppress this at any cost" approach. the heavy sentences can be seen as provocative (13 years for holding an "illegal" election is indefensible. it's pure authoritarian slapdown, reeks of hubris, and spits in the face o…
Please don’t be intellectually dishonest. Murder in Spain is 10 to 15 years but they have been condemned by more than one crime, and that adds up, so you are comparing apples to oranges. One of them is sedition, the other one is akin to embezzlement (they used public funds for pursuing their agenda outside of their public mandate).
Also the sentencing was not the harshest by far: rebellion was dropped, state attorney demanded up to 25 years, and “acusación particular” (VOX) was asking to up to 74 years.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes we can. There are independentists in parliament. The president of Catalonia is an independentist. Pro-independence demonstrations happen and there are no arrests just by going there (except in riots, but that's because the police force is way too uncontrolled, not because of a general freedom of expression issue). This takedown was to an app that was used to organize a blockage of a major airport. I do not agree…
The treatment of Carles Puigdemont and others is hardly consistent with free expression.
They were prosecuted not when they expressed pro-independence views, but when they decided to disobey court orders and use public resources for the referendum. At no point it was an issue regarding freedom of expression, and they in fact admitted disobedience during the trial.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's neither impossible nor unlawful though, they just need the rest of the country to agree with them leaving. The fascist dictator who formed modern Spain made it so its constituent lands can expel a part of it but no one part of it can choose to leave. This is the root of why the procés is illegal, and why they are being charged as violent agitators. They are seen as young kids trying to leave their parent's house…
> they just need the rest of the country to agree with them leaving I wonder if the American colonies which seceded from Great Britain in 1776 received the agreement of King George or of the people of Great Britain in general. Secession without consent of the sovereign was not part of their law, so the action was clearly illegal and unethical and the colonists simply in the wrong, do you think? Also there is the matt…
Well, talking about the US, a group of states tried to secede from the union and there was quite a large war to stop them.
It's not legal for a state to secede from the US at all without other states agreeing to it.
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's similar to Brexit. No matter what the government does, 50% of people will be utterly pissed off. But the biggest problem is that, unlike the UK where Scotland was allowed to hold a proper referendum in 2014, the Spanish government is not only not allowing holding a real referendum that would settle the issue for the next few years, but also prosecuting those responsible for the 2017 referendum with extremely har…
The interesting part is that the 13 years sentence might actually be illegal, and won’t hold up against an EU court. As Puigdemont was in Schleswig-Holstein in Germany at the moment of the arrest, German law limits the crimes for which Spain could extradite him, and limits the maximum sentence Spain can enforce, per the extradition agreement. This also applies to the cases which happened after the extradition. One ca…
> One can speculate why he specifically chose Schleswig-Holstein, but it’s the only region in Europe where, 1920, due to a peaceful referendum
How was the split of Czechoslovakia done?
Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository
#250For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…
IMO the accusation of terrorism is too much, but honestly some of the actions are worrying. I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from, but I understand why so many Catalonians are angry and protest for. But I also understand what different police forces are facing. You get actions like putting trees and blocks of concrete on railroads, making it very dangerous for passengers and…
> And they see this people is using P2P technology which is almost impossible to control, so they use all legal means at their disposal. I'm not a legal expert but I'd bet that going through the terrorism route is the only way they have to do something about it.
Framing it another way they're using trumped up terrorism charges to invoke powers that were not meant to be used against protests. Police powers are intentionally limited so that the full force of the state doesn't come crushing down on people speeding and using over blown charges to access those additional powers is very reminiscent of past slides away from democracy.
> I don't think it's reasonable to expect the police forces to do nothing.
That's the problem there's always more a police force can do, restricting that impulse to order and action is important to resist the slow slide towards police states.