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Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

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Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#61

Post by StavrosK »

joking wrote: post #56
StavrosK wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their plan is to continue doing so in an anonymous and unaccountable way. I mean, the politicians who tried to do this in an eponymous and accountable way got prison sentences, so...

They misused the political institutions for their benefit and pushed their agenda even when they have been warned several times of the penal consequences. There can be disagreement with the conviction time, but they are not innocents.

What is their agenda? Given that a large part of a country wants secession, isn't it only democratic to vote on it?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#62

Post by iagovar »

banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

IMO the accusation of terrorism is too much, but honestly some of the actions are worrying. I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from, but I understand why so many Catalonians are angry and protest for.

But I also understand what different police forces are facing. You get actions like putting trees and blocks of concrete on railroads, making it very dangerous for passengers and workers. They can't just let that happen. And they see this people is using P2P technology which is almost impossible to control, so they use all legal means at their disposal. I'm not a legal expert but I'd bet that going through the terrorism route is the only way they have to do something about it.

We could argue for years about what's legitimate and what's not, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect the police forces to do nothing.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#63

Post by imglorp »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #14

Whats embarassing here is that Spain now joins the likes of China and Russia regardless of whom in the government sent the request , at least in the context of government takedowns. https://github.com/github/gov-takedowns/ This is quite shameful.

I encourage people to read some of the offensive material in that repo. I went fishing out of curiosity and the first thing I found was,

    1. Communism is the devil, whose purpose is to destroy humanity.
It was a well informed treatise on the history of abusive regimes and worth reminding the West what we're enjoying and what we can lose.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#64

Post by joking »

zozbot234 wrote: post #45
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> developed an app that allows people to know where demonstrations are happening Sounds like a bit of welcomed transparency to me. The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand. (*Edited for consistency with newly-provided info in this HN thread.)

the app attemps to hide that, it's using geolocation to promote and comunicate only with a subset of the app users, police could infiltrate and gain access to some of the groups, but it will never get access to the full network, so the contrary of transparency.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#65

Post by ricardbejarano »

StavrosK wrote: post #48
ricardbejarano wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not to take anyone on Spain very seriously about this, as this is a very "with me or against me" kind of problem, and practically everyone has a strong opinion. Everyone will tell you their side of the story, with half-truths and euphemisms wherever they need them. Source: I'm Spanish, currently living in Barcelona.

It's true, and neither side is handling this very well. The government could have let the referendum happen but campaign against it, appeasing the people who wanted a democratic vote but still winning. Instead, they went full suppression and made themselves look much worse.

The thing is, the government can't let a "comunidad autonoma" organize a binding referendum about a region's secession of Spain, because that would put the region's sovereignty on the region's people, and that's against the Spanish constitution (art. 1.2, the sovereignty of the entire Spanish territory is of all Spanish citizens).

That also infringes Spanish constitution's 2nd art., "the Constitution is fundamented atop the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation".

It's not that they "should have let them vote", it's that they can't, unless the Spanish citizens reform the constitution and remove those articles.

The separatist movement is blocked in that regard, and unless all other UN countries were to recognize Catalonia as an independent state, they are locked in as a "comunidad autonoma" until a constitution reform happens.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#66

Post by oarsinsync »

jarfil wrote: post #40
oarsinsync wrote: post #9

Looks like the app repo is at https://github.com/s3rrallonga/tsunami It appears to still be online from UK, dunno about ES

That one seems to be a cloned repo, the blocked one is at https://github.com/tsunamidemocratic/tsunamidemocratic.githu... It returns a "Repository unavailable in your location" message, which is kind of ironic since the website itself is still accessible from https://tsunamidemocratic.github.io

https://github.com/s3rrallonga/tsunami is the repo linked to by the website at https://github.com/tsunamidemocratic/tsunamidemocratic.githu..., and there have been no further commits to the website in the last 12 days, while the takedown is from the last 24 hours.

Based on your comment, it suggests that the takedown request is for the website, not the application repo, which is interesting in a way.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#67

Post by iagovar »

zozbot234 wrote: post #45
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

> developed an app that allows people to know where demonstrations are happening Sounds like a bit of welcomed transparency to me. The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand. (*Edited for consistency with newly-provided info in this HN thread.)

> The Spanish police, concerned citizenry, etc. can use the app just as much as anyone else, to prevent things from getting out of hand

They can't. The app uses some kind of location data to silo information. So for example if they want to make an action in Tarragona, people from Barcelona is not going to know about it.

It is likely, seeing some threads of people who have analyzed the application, that the administrators, or whoever is behind it, will be able to know how many people are available in a particular location, and isolate that information in a kind of opsec.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#68

Post by deltron3030 »

komarrian wrote: post #2

This is outrageous "Tsunami Democratic" has not coordinated any terrorist attack nor has an attack taken place in Spain... They are abusing antiterrorist laws to quash peaceful protests and GitHub is complying.

Don't forget that Github is Microsoft.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#69

Post by petre »

StavrosK wrote: post #48
ricardbejarano wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not to take anyone on Spain very seriously about this, as this is a very "with me or against me" kind of problem, and practically everyone has a strong opinion. Everyone will tell you their side of the story, with half-truths and euphemisms wherever they need them. Source: I'm Spanish, currently living in Barcelona.

It's true, and neither side is handling this very well. The government could have let the referendum happen but campaign against it, appeasing the people who wanted a democratic vote but still winning. Instead, they went full suppression and made themselves look much worse.

It's against their constitution to do so. My country has similar wording in its constitution. Nevertheless, independence can happen if there's enough support for it, either through peaceful means or not. Unfortunately the central goverment's actions only escalate the situation further. It's like they've learned nothing from the Basque conflict.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#70

Post by NeedMoreTea »

swebs wrote: post #47
kzrdude wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is often understood to be the executive part, somewhat like 'administration', I don't know if there is a better word to use.

Not in the English speaking world at least. "Government" is an umbrella term which includes the legislature, executive, and judiciary.

In the UK "government" is generally taken to mean the executive who are also part of the legislature (parliament), but not judiciary. UK Judiciary separation appears to be far stronger than in the US viewed from here in the UK.
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