Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 455 posts

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#191

Post by quotemstr »

gameswithgo wrote: post #180
silisili wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate...and because I'm just not that educated in the space, is this really a huge deal? If we're talking couple ms at a time delays, isn't that still vastly superior to what a human could achieve?

GC pauses can be hundreds of milliseconds. You could perhaps use a particular GC scheme that guarantees you never have more than a couple millisecond pause, but then you have lots of pauses. That might have unintended consequences as well. I'm also not sure that such GCs, like golangs, can really mathematically guarantee a minimum pause time.

Hard real time garbage collectors have existed for decades. Of course you can mathematically guarantee a minimum pause time given a cap on allocation rate. What's stopping you?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#192

Post by mwint »

freeone3000 wrote: post #165
mwint wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, nothing should ever be built unless it can be 100% correct immediately. I’m stunned that it hasn’t, so far as we know, actually hit anything yet. I’m not sure how, but clearly they’re doing something right between choosing drivers and writing software.

There were several high publicity collisions with a Tesla colliding into stationary objects -- a highway barricade [1], a blue truck [2], a parked police car[3], two instances of a parked ambulance[4]... Teslas driving themselves hit objects all the time. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/tes... 2. Ibid 3. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/14/... 4. https://www.google.…

This was all not FSD beta; those were all on the completely separate public stack.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#193

Post by modeless »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

The car almost certainly decided that the road ahead was blocked. For context, this release of FSD is the first to use a new obstacle detection technique, and as a result it is the first one that doesn't drive directly into the pillars on that street without perceiving them at all. So it's very likely that this new obstacle detection system glitched out here.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#194

Post by Draiken »

roywiggins wrote: post #157
Draiken wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... 5 minutes on /r/IdiotsInCars and it's very easy for me to understand how even with bizarre bugs like this, it's better than people. People say "how could it happen?!" and get angry for a software bug - that can be fixed - and seem to accept how drunk drivers do this (and a lot worse) literally every single day. But since it's a human, that's fine! Edit: wording

There are pretty stringent laws against drunk driving in most places... if Tesla's "self driving" modes are that bad then they should be equally illegal

Genuinely curious: how would you even go about advancing autonomous driving without testing it in the streets?

I'm absolutely certain that they've attempted to simulate millions of hours of driving, yet this odd behavior happened in real life, which now can be studied and fixed.

If we never had the software on the wild, how would you ever really test it?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#195

Post by phkahler »

valine wrote: post #67

This is near the infamous monorail where previous versions of FSD would kamikaze into the giant concrete pillars. Presumably in response to the monorail failure Tesla updated their obstacle avoidance to handle unclassified objects. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1437322712339423237?s=21 From the nav you can see the car is trying to go straight but swerves around some invisible obstacle. I wouldn’t be surprised i…

Voxels? Wow. I was recently contemplating conscious driving vs ones own autopilot (when you get to work and dont remember any of the drive because it was unevetful). I realised that I sometimes drive largely in image space and other times in world space. It was an odd thing to deliberately flip between them. I don't really want to think about that...

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#196

Post by taneq »

epistasis wrote: post #151
taneq wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations. That could be interpreted to show a deep belief in their system's capabilities. On the other hand, it's always terrified me how jittery any version of AutoPilot's perception of the world is. Would you let your car be driven by someone with zero object permanence, 10/20 vision and only a vague idea of the e…

The extremely poor performance of the visualizations are disturbing to me. It's also completely wasted space on the display that I wish were devoted to driving directions instead of telling me what I can already see outside of the car.

I think whether it's wasted space or not depends entirely on the reliability of the system. For a many-9's system which for all intents and purposes isn't going to fail dangerously, I agree, the visualisation is just peacocking. For a beta-quality system, knowing what the car is thinking is an important driver feedback which gives additional warning before it does something really stupid.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#197

Post by tommymachine »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

Seems like the hairpin portion may have been an animation between the two paths, to smooth the UX? Also, it would give the driver a chance to correct the motion, as happened in the video.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#198

Post by ghaff »

rtkwe wrote: post #181
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

Cars are vastly more complex to do navigation for than planes too so we need to be even more careful when making auto autos. Plane autopilots are basically dealing with just the physical mechanics of flying the plane which while complex are quite predictable and modellable. All of the obstacle avoidance and collision avoidance takes place outside of autopilots through ATC and the routes are known and for most purpose…

Which is one reason I come back to thinking that you may see full automation in environments such as limited access highways in good weather but likely not in, say, Manhattan into the indefinite future.

Unexpected things can happen on highways but a lot fewer of them and it's not like humans driving 70 mph are great at avoiding that unexpected deer or erratic driver either.

ADDED: You'd actually think the manufacturers would prefer this from a liability perspective as well. In a busy city, pedestrians and cyclists do crazy stuff all the time (as do drivers) and it's a near certainty that FSD vehicles will get into accidents and kill people that aren't really their fault. That sort of thing is less common on a highway.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#199

Post by dylan604 »

CameronNemo wrote: post #101
oefrha wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the admittedly not much footage of Tesla FSD (1-2 hours total maybe) I’ve watched, it seems to be roughly on par with a student driver who occasionally panics for no apparent reason.

Petition to label all Teslas with FSD as student drivers. They need a little LED panel that tells you when the driver is using the AI.

While most people see the student vehicle and give it a wide berth, there are those that see it as a "teachable" moment. We've already seen that asshats that screw with cars labeled with Student Driver just to "give 'em a lesson" are already screwing with self driving cars for the same reason: They're assholes.
Post reply on HN