Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 455 posts

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#141

Post by sidlls »

300bps wrote: post #103
ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

Speaking as someone who believed all the hype about having fully autonomous cars by 2020, I think the truth is that it is orders of magnitude harder than we thought it was and that we are orders of magnitude less capable than we thought we were.

Something every software engineer should learn before their insufferable egos solidify.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#142

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an important part of why these technologies have been so successful in flight, and examples like this illustrate how far off we are to something like that in cars. The issue of response time, too, is one we cant ignore, and it is certainly a far greater challenge in automobiles.

I don't have answers, but it does seem to me like we are not placing a premium enough on structuring this tech to optimize driver supervision over the driving behavior. Granted, the whole point is to one day NOT HAVE to supervise it all, but at this rate we're going to kill a lot of people until we get there.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#143

Post by Draiken »

oefrha wrote: post #91
ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

From the admittedly not much footage of Tesla FSD (1-2 hours total maybe) I’ve watched, it seems to be roughly on par with a student driver who occasionally panics for no apparent reason.

I mean... 5 minutes on /r/IdiotsInCars and it's very easy for me to understand how even with bizarre bugs like this, it's better than people.

People say "how could it happen?!" and get angry for a software bug - that can be fixed - and seem to accept how drunk drivers do this (and a lot worse) literally every single day. But since it's a human, that's fine!

Edit: wording

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#144

Post by mikestew »

josefresco wrote: post #30

"almost hitting pedestrian" It wasn't even close. Look at where the ped is at 12 seconds, compared to the car. It's because he stopped the turn, and straightened the vehicle that the pedestrian stopped and looked up with concern (at 13 seconds). Even if the pedestrian broke out into a full run, they wouldn't have been in any real danger. This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in citi…

The concern I have is that the "eye contact" element is lost.

As a motorcyclist, runner, and cyclist, I can tell you that drivers will look you right in the eye as they pull out in front of you.

we make eye contact and look for acknowledgement or an indication of intent.

That behavior stands a good chance of getting one killed or hurt, especially in Seattle, the land of "oh, no, you go first..." Look at the wheels, not the eyes. The wheels don't lie.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#145

Post by phkahler »

antattack wrote: post #128
ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

Looking at the video Tesla was probably not closer than 25 feet from any pedestrians. If pedestrians were closer I think their proximity would make the car stop as in other videos. As to abrupt maneuver, EU limits rate of change for steering control and I think it would be wise for US to adopt something similar for driver assist systems.

>> As to abrupt maneuver, EU limits rate of change for steering control and I think it would be wise for US to adopt something similar for driver assist systems.

That's a terrible idea. First it's a bandaid over an underlying problem. Second it's a legislative answer to a technical problem, which is IMHO never a good idea.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#146

Post by SilasX »

tzs wrote: post #110
throwawayboise wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what does "yield" mean? It means slow down, and proceed when it's safe to do so. If a pedestrian starts crossing a 4-lane road and I have time to turn across his path without making him stop or deviate, then I can proceed safely and I think I've met the definition of "yield"

In Washington, where the video was recorded, the rule is that you must stop and remain stopped as long as there are pedestrians in the crosswalk in in your half of the roadway or within one lane of your half of the roadway. "Half of the roadway" is defined as all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction. In the case of a one-way road such as the one in the video "half of the roadway" is the whole road. In your…

Fair point but that's less restrictive standard than (your long lost sibling?) mzs was saying applies here.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#147

Post by dang »

Recent and related:

Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28545010 - Sept 2021 (118 comments)

Less recent and less related:

Watch a Tesla Fail an Automatic Braking Test and Vaporize a Robot Pedestrian - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24588795 - Sept 2020 (111 comments)

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#148

Post by oefrha »

Draiken wrote: post #143
oefrha wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the admittedly not much footage of Tesla FSD (1-2 hours total maybe) I’ve watched, it seems to be roughly on par with a student driver who occasionally panics for no apparent reason.

I mean... 5 minutes on /r/IdiotsInCars and it's very easy for me to understand how even with bizarre bugs like this, it's better than people. People say "how could it happen?!" and get angry for a software bug - that can be fixed - and seem to accept how drunk drivers do this (and a lot worse) literally every single day. But since it's a human, that's fine! Edit: wording

Drunk drivers on the road are… “fine”? Not sure where you live.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#149

Post by antattack »

cogman10 wrote: post #49
josefresco wrote: post #30

"almost hitting pedestrian" It wasn't even close. Look at where the ped is at 12 seconds, compared to the car. It's because he stopped the turn, and straightened the vehicle that the pedestrian stopped and looked up with concern (at 13 seconds). Even if the pedestrian broke out into a full run, they wouldn't have been in any real danger. This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in citi…

I agree, but this is probably the worst behavior I've seen of the FSD software. It abruptly tried to do a right turn on a no-right intersection with no warning (map said it was supposed to go straight, it looked like it was going to do that right up to the last second). Putting aside the "almost hitting a pedestrian", this is really dangerous behavior for an autonomous vehicle.

Tesla on Autopilot is not autonomous.

I look at current driver assistance systems as human-robot hybrid. Any driver assistance system should be required to be clear in it's intentions to the driver and give time to react, otherwise it's like a wild horse.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#150

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

I've watched quite a few FSD videos and in almost every single one the car barely knows what it wants. The route jumps all over the place. I'm pretty sure it's just the nature of their system using cameras and the noisy data that can generate.

The sat nav didn't update the route to go that way. The FSD system decided to. It probably completely lost track of the road ahead because of the unmarked section of the road and just locked on to the nearest road it could find, which was that right turn.

I've seen videos where it cross over unmarked road and then wants to go into the wrong lane on the other side because it saw it first. It seems like it will just panic search for a road to lock onto because the greatest contributor to their navigation algorithm is just the white lines it can follow.

Post reply on HN