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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the stick is usually a signal that the carrot is not big enough or doesn't exist.

In mandarin... Kill one to warn hundred

In English: Every quote you hear on the internet is false. ---Abe Lincoln.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#193
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we don't have the hospital capacity for seasonal flu victims.

By capacity I mean during flu season we don't run out of hospital beds when people with serious flu complications need them. By that definition then "not having capacity" means that people who go to the ER have to get turned away based on medical triaging.

Hospitals often have to set up tents in parking lots to deal with flu cases when the influx is much higher than average. We don't provision for peak flu; we provision for something less than the flu average.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#195
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They send people door to door to interact face-to-face with known carriers? That sounds like a bad idea.

They have PPE, if anything more PPE than hospitals in the US, and carriers should have surgical masks on.

That protects them, but they're still spreading the virus door to door.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose plan is that? My gov't has only told the citizens about their plan to shut things down, they haven't elaborated on what happens next. Just today we took the next step and made it a legal requirement that everyone stay at home. In our jurisdiction of just over 4 million people, we have 191 positive tests and 5 deaths. The number of new cases is already tiny, so how much lower do they have to go before we can swi…

Governments appear to be still working out the details of what to do, but you can look at those countries on the leading edge to see that they do come out of shutdown gradually and have other measures in place that are somewhat effective for COVID-19. > In our jurisdiction of just over 4 million people, we have 191 positive tests and 5 deaths. The number of new cases is already tiny, so how much lower do they have to…

South Korea never shut anything down apart from schools moving online.

Their entire strategy was one of targeted isolation rather than blanket shutdowns.

They've had one of the best results so far. Some of the responses out of the west really comes across as a kneejerk reactions by leaders who don't have the slightest clue what to do.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#197
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up the history of Taiwan and China.

Are you implying that China would hack the Taiwanese system and use the data to somehow identify dissenters within mainland China?

No I'm implying that China probably already has a backdoor built into this system and could strategically use it to further their Taiwan -control agenda.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#198
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that China would hack the Taiwanese system and use the data to somehow identify dissenters within mainland China?

No I'm implying that China probably already has a backdoor built into this system and could strategically use it to further their Taiwan -control agenda.

>is used by China to round up dissenters

Where are these dissenters? China, Taiwan, or elsewhere?

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#199
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant in the case of a visitor to the country who hasn’t purchased a local SIM yet, where the only contact information on the customs form is the hotel’s front-desk number.

They'd follow you from the airport. You could maybe evade if you were a trained expert who looked like a local national, but otherwise they'd just check CCTV (Taipei is covered in it) and follow your trail. I've never taken public trans out of TPE, so they'd probably just call the cab company and track you down that way. Otherwise, they would check the public trans cameras. Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you are…

> Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you aren't transmitting.

Yes and no. Airplane mode, turning your phone off, etc.

But also, even if your phone is pinging the tower with your device’s IMEI... how would they know it’s your phone’s IMEI? There’s no registry mapping IMEIs to legal identities, in any country, AFAIK. Carriers have that information, but you wouldn’t have yet signed up with any Taiwanese carrier. So the Taiwanese government could only get that information from a foreign carrier.

(Yes, you could plug all the tower pings into a graph DB and run Dynamic Network Analysis to figure out what common unidentified IMEI matches the route pattern you extracted from the CCTV data—but you’re expecting a lot here; that hardly works even when you have tens of thousands of bits of evidence of e.g. a crime ring; and that kind of analysis is one of the “slow checks”, like DNA PCR assaying, that takes months to run—especially if you’re having to go process-of-elimination by adding everyone else’s IMEIs into the graph to find the “UFO” IMEI [which presumes that doesn’t also involve O(N) warrants somehow. I’ll be nice and assume it doesn’t.] Add the fact that the only people trained in Network Analysis will be in your country’s fraud squad, and someone between Customs Enforcement and Fraud will have to come up with the idea of getting the fraud people to use this technique outside of its usual domain of application, and... not seeing it happening.)

Basically, for the Taiwanese government to know your phone’s IMEI, you would have either had to tell them the IMEI on the customs form†; or they would have to ask your previous phone provider in your country of origin what IMEI they last saw registered to your IMSI (in turn attached to the phone number on your customs form); and then, provided your domestic provider had any reason at all to want to answer that question (they certainly wouldn’t be compelled to), then the Taiwanese govt would be able to track you.

But that helps nothing if, again, you just provided the phone number of the hotel you’re staying at as your “contact number” on the customs form, as they ask you to. Then they’d need to take another step back and figure out what your cellular numbers in regular use are, given only your other details, without even knowing what carriers you have relationships with in other countries. (Sure, okay, look it up on LinkedIn. That works for a normal person. I’m assuming a person motivated to hide here.)

It also helps nothing if you bought a new phone at any point between when you last signed up for a SIM in your last country of known residence, and when you showed up in Taiwan; and it also helps nothing if you just set your phone to spoof your IMEI. (IMEIs are like MAC addresses: a hardware-fused default with a software-programmable override!)

† ...or they could read it off the millimeter-wave scan of your phone they took at the airport, if they tune the scanner just so. That solves everything for them except the IMEI spoofing, really.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#200
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd follow you from the airport. You could maybe evade if you were a trained expert who looked like a local national, but otherwise they'd just check CCTV (Taipei is covered in it) and follow your trail. I've never taken public trans out of TPE, so they'd probably just call the cab company and track you down that way. Otherwise, they would check the public trans cameras. Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you are…

> Also lack of local sim doesn't mean you aren't transmitting. Yes and no. Airplane mode, turning your phone off, etc. But also, even if your phone is pinging the tower with your device’s IMEI... how would they know it’s your phone’s IMEI? There’s no registry mapping IMEIs to legal identities, in any country, AFAIK. Carriers have that information, but you wouldn’t have yet signed up with any Taiwanese carrier. So the…

This is probably thinking too high tech for some basic human int collection. It's easy enough to collect imei numbers at a checkpoint. It's also easy enough to find out from family members and friends and business connections (everyone works for someone, has a family, and friends, and even if none, there's always a bank account that paid for the airline ticket somewhere, attached to a passport).

Think low tech. Taiwan didn't even have a computerized registry when I was born, so everything was done by hand (I can confirm this because when I had to look up my birth certificate, it wasn't in the records! and they had to look up the records by hand - but the records exist and are easily findable by humans)

also, don't neglect a simple phone call from the police to your boss - that's a super easy way to find out what's going on. Especially for Western folks who seem to be tied to their work.

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