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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#61

Post by RaoulP »

bogomipz wrote: post #56
RaoulP wrote: post #48

I’m in precautionary quarantine in Taipei right now, after arriving from a Level 3 country some days ago. As a tourist, I had to provide a phone number of a contact person in Taiwan upon my arrival. They call the number and confirm it works before you even leave the CDC checkpoint at the airport. You also self report your health condition. I then stood in line for 4 hours to get a special taxi to my place of quaranti…

I'm curious as a tourist what happens if you don't have a local contact? What happens if one has nothing but a hotel booking for accommodation instead of a home? I'm guessing that wasn't your case but were there others you heard or saw who were just regular tourists?

Actually my local contact was simply my Airbnb host. I had arranged the Airbnb only earlier that day, In response to the new travel restriction.

Other passengers provided the number of their hotel. The CDC called the hotel and (I believe) checked whether they were aware that these passengers were about to self-quarantine there.

Edit: even if you arrived without having anything booked at all, you can pay to stay at a designated quarantine hotel, though that is more expensive.

Also note that Taiwan doesn’t grant the “visa exemption” usually granted to tourists, when they now arrive from countries assessed as level 3 (requiring home quarantine). I was able to enter during a short window of time where home quarantine was instated but the new visa rules were not yet in effect. So I think it isn’t usual for the situation you described to occur.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#62

Post by RaoulP »

lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

> Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

I feel mostly the same. That’s what I’m looking forward to after this quarantine. I’m on day 6 as well - The lack of exercise or movement is the worst part.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#63

Post by endymi0n »

jordwest wrote: post #21

Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens) wrote a piece [1] on how we're now facing a choice between authoritarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-6858-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

A fascinating counterpoint to this is the German government, who not just as probably the first country did something distinctly different to quarantine (it's called contact prohibition and you can go anywhere you like as long as you don't meet with more than one person not from your household), but also rejected mass cell phone surveillance plans by a large margin.

People here are mostly calm, cautious and despite a few outliers have largely high compliance rates from everything I see on the streets.

More authoritarian governments have the clear upper hand in fighting COVID-19, but I'm very curious how this will play out and if we can weather this situation just as well as a free and privacy-sensitive liberal democracy.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#64

Post by RivieraKid »

rootusrootus wrote: post #51
RivieraKid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they love it, the inconvenience it causes is nothing compared to the economic and health impacts of the virus.

The really strict lock-downs have only been happening for the last week. People love it because they imagine this is only going to last a few weeks. Tell them that in order to be effective we're going to need to stay shut down for a year or more. Then let's talk about how much people like it.

The plan is to lift the lockdown after a few weeks when the number of new cases is low enough for targeted interventions - thorough contact tracing and quarantining.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#66

Post by state_less »

twomoretime wrote: post #33
jordwest wrote: post #21

Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens) wrote a piece [1] on how we're now facing a choice between authoritarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-6858-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

>and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future This here is really the problem, none of these emergency changes should necessarily become permanent. Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago... But I sense we are fighting human nature.

And if not permanent, more common. Authorities might say, "We did it before and this flu is half as dangerous, so just to be safe, let's put everyone on the digital leash again." This sort control comes with its own costs.

Personally, I'd rather take my risks and live free.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#67

Post by wahern »

twomoretime wrote: post #33
jordwest wrote: post #21

Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens) wrote a piece [1] on how we're now facing a choice between authoritarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-6858-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

>and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future This here is really the problem, none of these emergency changes should necessarily become permanent. Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago... But I sense we are fighting human nature.

> Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago...

Prior to industrialization almost all profit surpluses accrued to the elite, who always were taxed quite heavily. Industrialization meant the rise of the wage-earning middle-class and a shift in wealth (not to mention expenditures), thus the income tax.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#68

Post by dmix »

> Quarantine violators can be fined up to T$1 million ($32,955).

Today Taiwan fined a guy $33k USD for breaking quarantine by going to a nightclub (not a positive COVID case just a mandatory isolation due to travelling):

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/heavy-fine-for-taiwan-man-for-...

They aren't joking about the fines.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#69

Post by dekhn »

chillacy wrote: post #59
dekhn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flu already was wreaking massive havoc, it's just a cost we've internalized. Like driving.

Part of that is having the hospital capacity for seasonal flu and accident victims. We're prepared for that. Coronavirus adding more cases will soon overwhelm hospitals in major US cities, at which point they will have to start triaging patients like they are in Italy. Presumably if this became the new norm then we would up our hospital capacity to match and then re-adjust our life expectancy numbers as well.

we don't have the hospital capacity for seasonal flu victims.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#70

Post by hanspedah »

impendia wrote: post #24
huangc10 wrote: post #14

Like other people are saying, there's definitely ways around this. The only reason why Taiwan has been so successful in battling Coronavirus is that there is national pride in acting as a whole and doing what's best for society. There is huge shame to the family for people who defy. Taiwanese people generally know what helps society and when to listen. It is the cultural influence/mix of Chinese and Japanese governme…

I envy you. I am American. I live near, and teach at, a large state university -- which has closed for the spring semester and moved to online instruction. This past Friday there was a house party across the street -- presumably all students. Usually I am very chill, but this time I called the cops.

That behaviour reminds me of dark age where neighbours spied on each other and reported them to the government. And the thing that frightens me is that you and several others are doing this voluntarily.
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