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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#141

Post by bogomipz »

RaoulP wrote: post #61
bogomipz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as a tourist what happens if you don't have a local contact? What happens if one has nothing but a hotel booking for accommodation instead of a home? I'm guessing that wasn't your case but were there others you heard or saw who were just regular tourists?

Actually my local contact was simply my Airbnb host. I had arranged the Airbnb only earlier that day, In response to the new travel restriction. Other passengers provided the number of their hotel. The CDC called the hotel and (I believe) checked whether they were aware that these passengers were about to self-quarantine there. Edit: even if you arrived without having anything booked at all, you can pay to stay at a…

I'm curious were you traveling around Asia anyway and decided to visit Taiwan due to the Coronavirus being very contained there? Are you seeing lots of other travelers? Is your plan to wait it out there if so? It doesn't seem like a bad place to be right now.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#142

Post by lifeformed »

bobbyd3 wrote: post #34
lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

How did they get your information for the daily call? Just curious. Is everyone required to submit contact information? Or did they already have the required contact info for daily health checkups?

I had to do quarantine since I briefly left the country. When I came back, there was a quarantine line for everyone, where we gave them our contact info. After that, they sprayed us down and we got into a special quarantine taxi. The taxi ensures we only go home. We're not allowed to go anywhere else except to make a bathroom stop. If that happens, they call a number and a special janitor comes over to disinfect the bathroom.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#143

Post by lifeformed »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #122
lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

Just want to say the Dustforce soundtrack is one my favorite video game soundtracks of all time

Thank you! :)

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#144

Post by lifeformed »

beefok wrote: post #81
lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

That sounds like the way forward, I wish things were working out that way here! (USA) Off-topic but, I just discovered your music on spotify a few weeks ago and can't stop listening to your albums, amazing stuff man!

What a coincidence! Thank you, glad you like it :)

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#145

Post by akiselev »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #111
akiselev wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The founders hoped to create a new nation where the government didn't try and maximize its tax on citizens and just tax enough to maintain the functions of government. That's not at all what they hoped to create. The colonists didn't write no taxation or minimize taxation but no taxation without representation . Don't take my word for it, though, they wrote up a whole list of grievances (most of which have to do wi…

That was just a slogan. They weren't going to accept taxation that came with representation in Parliament. They were happy to tax themselves -- they just didn't want to get taxed by England.

> They weren't going to accept taxation that came with representation in Parliament.

Why do you think so? My reading of history is that the term 'loyalist' wasn't coined until well after the Boston tea party and several people who were later considered loyalists were participants in that event. It wasn't until it was clear that King George wouldn't respect their rights as Englishmen (three years later) that the patriots drafted the declaration of independence and the revolution began.

The actual list of grievances in the declaration of independence were focused mostly on self determination and representation, not taxes:

1. He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most necessary for the public good

2. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

3. He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only

4. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

and so on.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#146

Post by lifeformed »

lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

Regarding the privacy aspect: I think it's a valid concern but this seems like the right pragmatic approach for this situation. I would be more comfortable if they made us use a tracking app on my phone instead, since the app has an express purpose and I can remove it afterwards. But the phone tracking method they are using instead is more robust and tried and true, so it makes since to use that.

I guess the issue is not how they do it but if they should do it at all. I think freedom is a balance of what we want and what society needs. If we're living in a society, there's a degree of sacrifice in our personal freedom we must make sometimes. Things like vaccines, limits to speech, and taxes are examples of things that we agree are necessary to run a society that's better for everyone, at a personal cost to our own freedoms or resources. Finding that balance is tricky but I don't think that "maximize personal freedom always" is an approach that always leaves you better off.

The other thing is how much trust you put in your society and the government. Taiwan's government had a rocky past, but it's on a good trajectory of strong personal freedom and democracy now. I can forgive them for using this power in this extreme circumstance, but after all this is done, I'd like to see them review this process and ensure there are the right safeguards and oversights in place.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#147

Post by raphlinus »

lifeformed wrote: post #32

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

Thanks for the first-hand report. I've been somewhat obsessed recently about the topic of how we might use tracking data to control the spread of the virus, including the experiences such as China, Taiwan, and Singapore, but have found not much English-language material. It seems to be slightly taboo to talk about.

Off-topic, my son is a big fan. Neon Shore is one of his favorites, so I have that playing as I type.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#148

Post by alainchabat »

dmix wrote: post #68

> Quarantine violators can be fined up to T$1 million ($32,955). Today Taiwan fined a guy $33k USD for breaking quarantine by going to a nightclub (not a positive COVID case just a mandatory isolation due to travelling): https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/heavy-fine-for-taiwan-man-for-... They aren't joking about the fines.

small correction: NTD$100,000 (usd$32,955)

Taiwanese Dollars isn't that shitty (yet)

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#149

Post by bernardtapis »

Taiwan is trying really hard to attract foreign talents to boost their economy. If you're interested, check their Golden Card Permit. It's a visa+redisent card allowing you to stay and work for anyone there up to 3years. The only requirement is to justify of a an average salary of 160k NTD/month(~USD 5210/month), anywhere in the world. If you don't earn that, try the skills application[1]. I'll not talk about all the positive things about Taiwan, just read the other comments.

[1] https://foreigntalentact.ndc.gov.tw/en/cp.aspx?n=128B875DE9C...

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#150

Post by dylz »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #113
bilal4hmed wrote: post #6

Tracking like this has been one of the reasons for Singapores success to curbing the virus. https://www.therakyatpost.com/2020/03/23/what-malaysia-can-l... ""If people don’t have symptoms, they’re put in home quarantine. And home quarantine is very strict. A couple times a day, you’ll get an SMS and you have to click on a link that will show where your phone is. In case you cheat and leave your phone at home with som…

They send people door to door to interact face-to-face with known carriers? That sounds like a bad idea.

They have PPE, if anything more PPE than hospitals in the US, and carriers should have surgical masks on.
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