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Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

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Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#181

Post by wkat4242 »

Akronymus wrote: post #44
xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

The push for x product but vegan annoys me quite a bit, tbh. There are lots of really amazing vegan meals. But noooo, gotta emulate non-vegan meals. As you said, nutritionally empty, but also just plain tasting worse IME.

There are a lot of people like me that just prefer eating vegan foods for animal welfare reasons. But do love the taste of meat. It's also a good transitional method during a period of change because people already know what taste they like.

This is why. Of course many foods can be even better exploiting the best sides of their ingredients but it will be different so it will be harder to convince people. This will just take longer.

I think it's principally the vegan burgers that are pretty horrible, just big fatty patties with no nutricional value, and not very tasty either, with some exceptions like Beyond.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#182

Post by danielbln »

Akronymus wrote: post #44
xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

The push for x product but vegan annoys me quite a bit, tbh. There are lots of really amazing vegan meals. But noooo, gotta emulate non-vegan meals. As you said, nutritionally empty, but also just plain tasting worse IME.

Nothing wrong with emulating non-vegan foods. Culturally we have honed non-vegan meals for a _long_ time, and it only makes sense to tap into those learning by substituting certain ingredients but keeping taste, mouthfeel and pairing options intact. Of course, if you shovel nothing but processed food into your maw, that's going to be bad for you, vegan or not.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#183

Post by oh_sigh »

kelipso wrote: post #171
PretzelPirate wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. >... > I know all this because I’ve been vegan for 5+ years and i had to study a lot to >... > The processed products on the market are not good for you. You appear to have a bias and are proclaiming that everyone will soon align with your bias. I've been vegan for over 13 years and eat a ton of pr…

> eat a ton of processed vegan foods, a lot of oil All you're convincing me of here is that it's easy for a typical vegan diet to be incredibly unhealthy.

Well, it's true. Artificially limiting your choices imposes hardships, not opportunities.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#184

Post by hammyhavoc »

jna_sh wrote: post #102
profeaturo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re only a few disasters away from the government deciding that the climate crisis requires drastic measures, including a severe rationing of meat and other products considered harmful to the environment. It’s clear from the rhetoric that this is the direction we are moving in, and it’s also clear that a great percentage of the population will comply and even celebrate such restrictions.

I can’t walk about in public wearing a mask for any length of time without getting harassed, despite the continued prevalence of COVID and the worsening picture regarding long term consequences. I have trouble believing “it’s clear” that a great percentage of the population will comply, I think the handling of the early lockdowns has done for that. It seems more clear to me that governments will struggle to get compl…

Where do you live? I walk around with a mask in the UK with zero issues, same with my partner and family.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#185

Post by Eduard »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #162
Eduard wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Healthy alternatives like instant ramen? No, healthy alternatives like healthy alternatives. E.g. google "cheap healthy food" (notice I even haven't added a "vegan" query constraint). And your "poor people will choose calorie rich food" is an argument - for what? That animal-based food is low-calorie or high-calorie, and people will only substitute it with unheathly stuff? Keep in mind that people have been going t…

Meat is included in the cheap healthy food (as you said yourself), but once you're so poor you cannot afford even the cheap meats, you won't be able to afford a lot of other healthy things either. Yes cabbages are cheap when in season, but how long will you feel "full" (not hungry) after a cabbage soup compared to eg. pasta or rice?

I know; this is Hacker News, hence a strong knowledge and habit bubble of start-up ramen and food delivery cuisine, and a lack of knowledge of all the other choices of food that nature provides, and no experiences in the kitchen besides microwave.

Vegan people must belt down their Kwashiorkor; and no idea how any other society in the world of the long and recent past, as well as the present, could struggle through the only two possible options "eternal feeling of hunger" and "morbidly obese by noodle".

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#186

Post by danielbln »

mg wrote: post #13

Vegans of HN: What do you supplement and why? Personally, I supplement VitaminD3 and Iron. And I make sure to eat salad, carrots and avocado every day. I came up with this regime after getting my blood work done and after exactly tracking all my nutritional values for a while and comparing those to the suggested amounts. I also have a long running project in the "statistics of one" space, where I track a lot of treat…

B12, Magnesium, multi-vit, Omega3 (from algae), D3. I'm pescatarian (although rarely, mostly vegetarian).

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#187

Post by Gareth321 »

shafyy wrote: post #155
Gareth321 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a faulty premise. Most meat and dairy is healthy, if consumed in reasonable quantities. The exception is chargrilled red meat, which is correlated with colon cancer. There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children. This study ( https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918?log... ), for example, found that vegan children were shorter and had lower bone density. Typical vegan diets la…

The only things lacking in a plant-based diet that is essential are vitamin B12 and D. B12 is also lacking in animal-based diets nowadays, but is supplemented in animal feed. D is also lacking in animal-based diet, so this is not specific to plant-based diets. Vitamins A, B6, F can be found in many plant-based foods. The rest of the stuff you listed are not essential for human health.

> B12 is also lacking in animal-based diets nowadays, but is supplemented in animal feed. D is also lacking in animal-based diet, so this is not specific to plant-based diets.

B12 is naturally present in fish, meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products. D is naturally present in oily fish, including salmon, mackerel, and sardines; as well as egg yolks, red meat, and liver.

> Vitamins A, B6, F can be found in many plant-based foods. The rest of the stuff you listed are not essential for human health.

Only fortified vegan foods contain sufficient quantities to satisfy a healthy diet, and even then, fortification may not be enough; especially for a growing child. Of course it requires one to be diligent in purchasing fortified options.

As for the claim that CLA, carnitine, carnosine, cholesterol, creatine, heme-iron, and taurine are not essential, I refer you to these studies and sources:

* CLA is an essential fatty acid for humans (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4429457/).

* Carnitine is considered a conditionally essential amino acid (https://ods.od.nih.gov/News/Carnitine_Conference_Summary.asp...). In many cases the body does not synthesise sufficient quantities.

* Carnosine can be synthesised with beta-alanine and L-histidine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8300828/), but vegetarians possess 50% lower beta-alanine (Harris, 2007. Harris RC, Jones G, Hill CA, et al. The Carnosine Content of V Lateralis in Vegetarians and Omnivores The FASEB Journal. 2007;21:769.20), and vegetarians subsequently typically possess significantly lower levels of muscle carnosine (Everaert, 2011. Everaert I, Mooyaart A, Baguet A, Zutinic A, Baelde H, Achten E, Taes Y, De Heer E, Derave W. Vegetarianism, female gender and increasing age, but not CNDP1 genotype, are associated with reduced muscle carnosine levels in humans. Amino Acids. 2011 Apr;40(4):1221-9). As per the study by Jukic et al. (2021), carnisine is an extremely important dipeptide for humans.

* Cholesterol is essential (https://www.cdc.gov/cholesterol/myths_facts.htm#:~:text=Myth....).

* Heme is essential (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967179/).

* Taurine is essential (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3501277/).

It's fair to argue that the data on K2, CoQ10, saturated fat isn't as conclusive. While the data is convincing, I can't prove they are essential. They certainly haven't been ruled out as being important to a healthy, balanced diet.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#188

Post by hammyhavoc »

nunodonato wrote: post #28
jiggywiggy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not with you. But in most modern cities they are actively campaigning against meat, they are mostly using the moral card: you are destroying the planet. How fun.

what destroys the planet is not meat or non-meat. Its mass production of [insert food here]. I have fun listening the vegan arguments until they are shown how their over-consumption of avocados or soy-based foods has devastating or exploiting effects on ecosystems and people.

Bold of you to assume I'm not growing my own food.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#189

Post by Gigachad »

xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

I’m not vegan but I don’t use milk at all. I don’t think I’d suffer any problems by adding soy milk to my coffee vs the nothing I currently add.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#190

Post by ornornor »

ahelwer wrote: post #150
saiya-jin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which animal harm do you mean by having cows for milk? Its easy to buy bio milk which comes from free grazing cows, the cost of it is almost the same as basic milk where I live. I can tell you from my daily personal experience those are some of the happiest non-wild animals you can meet in person. I mean if we move away from it, yes technically there will be 0 harm possible because we will have to kill all the diary…

1. Cows, like humans, only produce milk after giving birth 2. These cows, in order to get pregnant in the first place, are artificially inseminated (and it isn't a very nice process) 3. What do you think happens to the offspring if it's male and thus uneconomical to keep? The fact that these statements (which are incredibly obvious if you have an eighth grade education or higher) have to be spelled out is a testament…

The fact you’re getting downvoted so much also illustrates how much our species is willing to hide our head in the sand and buy the milk lobbies’ lies.
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