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Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

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Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#41

Post by xk_id »

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised.

The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s negligible. Vegan “meat” from wheat/seitan (the most popular version) contains a type of protein that is not digestible. Vegan “cheese” from coconut oil and starch is also nutritionally empty. And so on.

I know all this because I’ve been vegan for 5+ years and i had to study a lot to understand how to be responsible about my diet. You have to go to basics and use raw ingredients. The processed products on the market are not good for you.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#43

Post by esperent »

kfk wrote: post #12

I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…

> We lighlty compare real milk with plant based milk without being honest about the completely different properties of the two

For sure, there are many differences between plant based and dairy milk. Besides the protein levels, for example, a large percentage of humans - between 10 and 90 percent depending on genetic background - are lactose intolerant and can't digest animal milk. Plant based milks don't have this problem - very few people can't digest oats, and for those few who do have a problem with oats, they can switch to almond, rice, soy, cashew or even peanut milk. Sure, these have less protein than dairy milk, but they more than make up for it in diversity and benefit to the environment, and it's easy to adapt your diet to get the protein elsewhere.

So when being more honest in our comparisons - a good thing, for sure - we must compare all of these things and not just the amount of protein. For me personally, being one of those lactose intolerant people, plant based milks definitely win. For another person they may not.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#44

Post by Akronymus »

xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

The push for x product but vegan annoys me quite a bit, tbh.

There are lots of really amazing vegan meals. But noooo, gotta emulate non-vegan meals. As you said, nutritionally empty, but also just plain tasting worse IME.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#45

Post by waihtis »

mvdwoord wrote: post #4

Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..

Same. No-one has yet been able to explain why I should exchange a well-functioning animal-based diet into a vegan one where I need to supplement by default to fulfill human needs. I have respect for those who do it on the basis of animal compassion, but claiming healthiness is obviously a false statement.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#46

Post by Vespasian »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #11
deepsun wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relax, no one is really considering meat foods to go away in the next 100 years or so. It's all about the access to the vegetarian and vegan foods to those who want it, and it happens to become more popular, so market adapts. But you present it like someone tries to take your food.

Maybe not with you. But in most modern cities they are actively campaigning against meat, they are mostly using the moral card: you are destroying the planet. How fun.

I live in a quite progressive modern city (in central Europe though) and at least here it can't be very widespread as I've never noticed anything like that.

I've got a few friends who are vegan but it's mostly me doing the questioning as I'm curious about developments in that field (and agtech)

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#47

Post by goodpoint »

kfk wrote: post #12

I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…

The amount of sugars and carbs in fruit and veggies has risen a lot due to selection. The amount of sugar in products like cookies, yogurt, bread, sauces, sodas has been skyrocketing for decades. These changes often go unnoticed.

Meanwhile vegan, vegetarian and healthy products often clustered together, attract a health conscious crowd and get scrutinized a lot. For example alternative milks have to jump through hoops to prove that they aren't less healthy than milk.

> Many plant based vegan alternatives hide from the real problem, I think

If anything, it's the opposite.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#48

Post by ben_w »

hutzlibu wrote: post #23
kfk wrote: post #12

I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…

"the difficult conversation we need to be having would be about proteins and how to produce them sustainabily and ethically. This plant based vegan alternatives hide from the real problem, I think" Huh? I thought the real problem are the vast ressources milk production needs and the cruel need to seperate the cow babies from their mothers so they produce more milk. And not even speaking about the meat production faca…

Meat and dairy are clearly not "vast" resource hogs in any way that currently matters, because they're cheap.

And while I personally share the belief that it's inherently cruel and should be changed, it's been obvious to me for most of my life that most people don't share those values and are not motivated by that.

But that's also a category error for the comment you're replying to, which is "is it healthy?" when you're answering "is it ethical?"

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#49

Post by Etheryte »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #17
kfk wrote: post #12

I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…

It's funny you are worried about the impact of vegan alternatives and not, say, sugars, alcohol, overly fatty or salty foods, too much bad quality meat raised with hormones etc. It's almost like you have a bias against the vegan alternative.. Edit: ok so I was not terribly constructive with this comment, so happy to elaborate. I'm pretty tired of this argument against vegan meat. The nutritional values of vegan meat…

Please don't bring your nonsense strawman arguments to HN. It's perfectly fine to bring up one angle about something you want to discuss without listing all the other angles every single time, that doesn't downplay them in any way. If you always insist on listing every possible problem associated with every possible discussion point you'll never get anywhere.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#50

Post by rebuilder »

xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

Seitan is gluten which is perfectly digestible, unless of course you are sensitive to it.

The oat milks I see sold here are fortified with calcium and vitamins as well as iodine.

No argument on vegan cheeses.

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