Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..
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Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
161–170 of 282 posts
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Healthy alternatives like instant ramen? If a significant nuber of people can't afford meat any more, that's not a tiny difference in purchasing power (that can be mitigated by some fewer luxuries), but they basically became "very poor" now, and poor people will choose calorie rich food, which mostly isn't healthy at all.. just compare price per calorie for pasta/rice/(ramen)... vs peppers, broccoli, eggplant, etc.
> Healthy alternatives like instant ramen? No, healthy alternatives like healthy alternatives. E.g. google "cheap healthy food" (notice I even haven't added a "vegan" query constraint). And your "poor people will choose calorie rich food" is an argument - for what? That animal-based food is low-calorie or high-calorie, and people will only substitute it with unheathly stuff? Keep in mind that people have been going t…
Meat is included in the cheap healthy food (as you said yourself), but once you're so poor you cannot afford even the cheap meats, you won't be able to afford a lot of other healthy things either. Yes cabbages are cheap when in season, but how long will you feel "full" (not hungry) after a cabbage soup compared to eg. pasta or rice?
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
The evidence I've seen seems to indicate that meat and dairy are the healthy alternative. They also have centuries of safety data, unlike many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. I doubt you'll agree, and I'm sure you'll be able to pull out some studies suggesting otherwise, but perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift t…
> many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. Kinda strawmanny to take/highlight unhealthy food as the vegan alternatives compared. > perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift the diets of millions of people The diary and meat industries are prime examples that have profited and am profiting from (influencing) policy decisio…
Oat milk is a popular vegan milk and almost all of them are 10% canola oil. It's not that much of a strawman.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children That is not "evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children".
Lower stature and bone density is evidence of dangerous malnutrition. Those with lower bone density in particular are at far higher risk of osteoporosis. I'm not sure how you could claim that isn't evidence of potential danger.
Not sure what your evidence is. Here's my list of studies of vegetarian and vegan children that disprove your claims:
* https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/11/4/832/htm
* https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-021-02753-3
* https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/5/1707/htm
* https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918
* https://anthropogoniquescom.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/grow...
* https://anthropogoniquescom.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/grow...
* https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-277X....
* https://www.minervamedica.it/en/journals/minerva-pediatrics/...
* https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202013492
All concluded that vegan diets were healthy for children as long as the parents knew the common deficiencies (B12) and fed their children enough calories. The study you cited is on my list because it seems you didn't read the results where it stated that most children were not eating fortified or supplemented food like Vitamin D, which could easily explain why they have a lower bone density.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You have a faulty premise. Most meat and dairy is healthy, if consumed in reasonable quantities. The exception is chargrilled red meat, which is correlated with colon cancer. There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children. This study ( https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/113/6/1565/6178918?log... ), for example, found that vegan children were shorter and had lower bone density. Typical vegan diets la…
You have a faulty conclusion, I didn't say most meat and diary is unhealthy.
But there is plenty of evidence that a nutrition significantly more vegan than today's western standard is better: healthier, cheaper, and ecologically superior.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Correlation is not causation. As a European myself here is another correlation that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that people in Europe are not buying as much high quality food […] After the politicians printed so much money in order to pay for COVID costs, general inflation has accumulated to 18% or so, split in two years of 8-9%. It's a nice theory and it would be very believable, if the trend to ea…
2015-2020 was zero interest rate period not zero inflation. Housing went up 14% https://www.in2013dollars.com/Housing/price-inflation/2015-t...
You are linking to US data. However you are right that the inflation in Europe was not 0%, but it was well below the 2% target rate. The average inflation rate over that time period is around 1.2%.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Correlation is not causation. As a European myself here is another correlation that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that people in Europe are not buying as much high quality food […] After the politicians printed so much money in order to pay for COVID costs, general inflation has accumulated to 18% or so, split in two years of 8-9%. It's a nice theory and it would be very believable, if the trend to ea…
0% inflation isn’t true at all
Yes, depends on the country. But between 2015 and 2020 the average inflation was 1.2%.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Correlation is not causation. As a European myself here is another correlation that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that people in Europe are not buying as much high quality food […] After the politicians printed so much money in order to pay for COVID costs, general inflation has accumulated to 18% or so, split in two years of 8-9%. It's a nice theory and it would be very believable, if the trend to ea…
Could you share the data for this please?
Here is the data for Austria where I live. I'm not sure how to find representative numbers across the EU: https://www.academia-superior.at/seit-2000-ist-der-jaehrlich...
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children That is not "evidence that vegan diets are dangerous for children".
Lower stature and bone density is evidence of dangerous malnutrition. Those with lower bone density in particular are at far higher risk of osteoporosis. I'm not sure how you could claim that isn't evidence of potential danger.
You have it backwards. Malnutrition can lead to impaired growth and lower bone density. But that doesn't automatically mean that lower bone density and lower stature is evidence of malnutrition. For all we know the measured difference between test and control was much smaller than the standard deviation.
Also the list you posted contains substances that our body produces ourselves so we don't need to get these from food (e.g. Creatine)
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. >... > I know all this because I’ve been vegan for 5+ years and i had to study a lot to >... > The processed products on the market are not good for you. You appear to have a bias and are proclaiming that everyone will soon align with your bias. I've been vegan for over 13 years and eat a ton of pr…
I knew a smoker who lived to 90. I'm not sure how either of our anecdotes are valuable here.
Yours less so. The commenter made an extraordinary claim, without evidence, that nutritional deficiencies would soon appear as a result of vegan food. The responder at least cited personal evidence that despite being on a vegan diet for 13 years they have had no abnormal blood work. Obviously it’s not as valuable as a well constructed large scale study, but it’s at least marginally better than literally nothing.