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Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

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Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#181

Post by paulryanrogers »

rbanffy wrote: post #154
nicoburns wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of support for GUI apps such as MS Office, Adobe Creative Suite, etc. It was actually workable with wine a few years back, but that was before everything went to an auto-updating subscription model.

When I really need to run a Windows application, I fire up a VM and use it. KVM's desktop experience is lacking, but VirtualBox is excellent. And the VMs are nicely contained, disk volumes can have copy-on-write snapshots, and the volumes can even be made immutable - you shut the VM down and, when you restart, it's back to its immutable state. This is becoming less than practical thanks to various self-updating thing…

But they are slow and/or require more expensive hardware. Dual booting or these para-virtualized solutions help somewhat. Time efficiency, finances, and technical aptitude may vary widely.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#182

Post by colejohnson66 »

de_watcher wrote: post #161
colejohnson66 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this extend their walled garden? The kernel doesn’t just accept patches willy nilly.

How does this extend their walled garden? They want to capture Linux/MacOS users with that development.

Enticing developers to use their platform isn’t “extending their walled garden.” In a healthy free market, competition is good. Microsoft is encouraging using Linux, just through a VM instead of dual booting (or even removing Windows).

Vendor lock-in, OTOH, would be a valid criticism. But again, this is not that.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#183

Post by ncallaway »

de_watcher wrote: post #150
cycloptic wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone should be afraid Please don't FUD like this. Proprietary systems on top of Linux are nothing new and Microsoft certainly isn't the first company to have done it. If you have some real proof of their business plans then let's hear that rather than encouraging speculation and fearmongering.

It's not FUD. It's the Microsoft's never-changing strategy. I don't know how many times people need to experience it to remember this.

> Everyone should be afraid of this

> It's not FUD.

I'm sorry, but the sentence "every should be afraid of this" is literally Fear.

Yes, Microsoft has a history and yes, we should be cautious. But that's very different than calling for every person to be afraid.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#184

Post by slipheen »

saberience wrote: post #125
jacquesm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So use Linux if you want an 'it just works' gui. It just works. I've been using Linux as my daily driver since just about forever and it works just fine. Very, very rarely do I hit the limitations of the system, usually this is when trying to do something weird such as running 8 sound cards in the same machine or some other strange hardware feat. But other than that it is very hard to find flaws in the day-to-day use…

Linux "just works" if you're a developer who posts on Hackernews. It doesn't work if you're my parents or older sister.

My parents (who are both pensioners) switched over from Macs to Thinkpads with Linux.

The only help I gave them was recommending compatible hardware. They've been using them full-time for the last year, and have been really happy with them.

Even Steam games seem to work reasonably well, which I was impressed by.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#185

Post by Alopis »

whereistimbo wrote: post #140
harha wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think having a similar UI as mobile is very good for the user since the input mode is very different. I think macOS does way better here with a minimal use of white space because I can easily have a browser open on the side to look up what I'm trying to change - though some things do appear a bit old school (e.g. networking).

The Settings app in Windows works very well with mouse and the wasted whitespace only appears when it's maximized, the app was made to be responsive with several windows sizes.

Seems like you've never used it with a non-FHD screen. Or as a window. Because it absolutely wastes a ton of space. The sidebar on the right will disappear to the bottom, which is unnecessarily cut off because of the crazy large margins around everything. I don't understand why every page needs to be scrolled when the Control panel fit twice as much functionality into half or even a quarter of the space.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#186

Post by mlindner »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #136
JamesSwift wrote: post #104

Sorry for the ignorance, but what does this mean? I understand from the article that the patch allows the full Hyper-V stack to run on a linux-based machine (as opposed to previously needing windows to run the root partition). But what does _that_ mean to have the ability to run Hyper-V entirely on linux? Is it just a "good to have options" thing?

It probably means they want to leverage out the existing open source VM software so they can make one with proprietary Windows support (at some point down the line). There is a long history of this in the past with Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... Everyone should be afraid of this, even the Microsoft employees commenting here. Look at the 737 MAX post on the front page for ano…

Linking policies from decades ago isn't helpful.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#187

Post by jhawk28 »

de_watcher wrote: post #150
cycloptic wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone should be afraid Please don't FUD like this. Proprietary systems on top of Linux are nothing new and Microsoft certainly isn't the first company to have done it. If you have some real proof of their business plans then let's hear that rather than encouraging speculation and fearmongering.

It's not FUD. It's the Microsoft's never-changing strategy. I don't know how many times people need to experience it to remember this.

How are you seeing this perceived strategy in LinkedIn, GitHub, Azure, .NET Core, Docker, Surface, etc?

These are all things that Microsoft is either owner or a strong participant. They aren't the same company as they used to be. They don't have one single product (Windows) that everything revolves around. They were losing too much (things like Mobile) to keep that strategy.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#188

Post by rightbyte »

cycloptic wrote: post #155
de_watcher wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not FUD. It's the Microsoft's never-changing strategy. I don't know how many times people need to experience it to remember this.

That strategy has also failed them numerous times and resulted in complete flops. Sorry I am just really sick of the senseless Microsoft bashing that tends to pervade Linux communities. If you have some real reason to criticize them based on current behavior then let's hear that. Anything else is speculation.

There is no MS lovehate anymore from Linux community in my experience since the rise of the greater evils went under the radar as hipp. Sadly MS is on the course joining the Google and Facebook in this regard.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#189

Post by disown »

phkahler wrote: post #173
aunty_helen wrote: post #3

>Windows 10 is on a path to becoming a hybrid Windows/Linux system This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui

>> This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui No, don't. That seems to be what they want. It's not about running linux apps on Windows. It's about blending the two so that even Linux apps are dependent on Microsft APIs and such. What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that? BTW they…

> This is painfully obvious and a bunch of people on here are saying "STFU" unless you have proof of their intentions, which is a stupid argument given the history and current efforts to "extend".

It's even more stupid when you consider that microsoft is going in the data collection business like facebook/google/etc. Not just their ever expanding "telemetry", taking more and more control away from the users but their acquisitions like linkedin, github, etc ( which are fundamentally data extraction companies ).

The amount of "love" microsoft/bill gates/etc gets here is rather disappointing. I'm sure it's part paid PR and partly people making a living on the windows/microsoft stack, but still sad.

Billionaires are evil, but don't you dare say anything bad about saint gates. He is here to save the world. Eerie. Facebook, google, etc are evil and people should stop using it, but I need microsoft in my life. Strange.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#190

Post by saberience »

Avamander wrote: post #142
saberience wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux "just works" if you're a developer who posts on Hackernews. It doesn't work if you're my parents or older sister.

My parents and older sister say otherwise, if we're posting anecdotal evidence.

Ok, so are you seriously suggesting if we did a random sampling of 60+ aged people in Europe and the US (who use computers) we would find Linux being used by the majority of them? Because if you are I would suggest you're living in a fantasy-land. I would be surprised if 5% of computer-using 60+ year olds use Linux.

Yes, I used an anecdote, but it's an anecdote that shows a massive grain of reality. I mean, I work for a tech company full of 30-somethings and 20-somethings and only one of the engineers in a group of about 320 that I know and work with requested a Linux laptop versus Mac or Windows. If this is the case with young engineers, it's absolutely going to be even worse (for Linux) when looking at non technical older people.

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