US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#181

Post by ferest » Fri, May 15, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #103

saiya-jin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I get your point, they did/are doing tons of bad stuff. But so is every-fucking-body else, everywhere. Industrial espionage is a thing for more than a century, everybody tries to steal whatever they can, even US from Europe and vice versa. US secret services help their own private companies get an edge (for some other favors obviously), and so do other secret services. Friendships among nations is a very relativ…

So in that case, then it's surely fine to just block Huawei. It's just a continuation of the same shenanigans that "everybody is doing". Right? I think there are certain lines that aren't supposed to be crossed. You'll notice in the U.S. that Uber and Levandowski were sued by Waymo. Why? Because they stole source code. If "everybody is doing it" surely Waymo would just chalk it up to business as usual right? I guess…

> If I, as a U.S. citizen, started hacking into Chinese companies and stealing their source code, set up an operation to call and scam old Chinese ladies out of their life savings, or any of that I'd be in serious shit.

It really depends on how much valuable stuff you got

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#182

Post by generatorguy » Fri, May 15, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #176

generatorguy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada does have a stake in the matter as Huawei hacked Nortel to steal their IP and then undercut all their business deals causing nortel to go bankrupt to the detriment of 94,000 employees and every single Canadian that owned just about and stock market fund. It is embarrassing that we haven’t banned Huawei products in Canada yet.

Nortel was hit by the tech bubble bursting, then engaged in financial fraud.[1][2] Blaming Huawei for Nortel's failure is a pretty massive rewrite of history. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptc... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619

tech bubble burst in 2001, Huawei hacking of nortel was 2004-2009.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag...

https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-t...

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#183

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 15, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #135

alisonatwork wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about telecoms, but I work in a different area of software development in China and can confirm it is not uncommon for developers here to bring their whole previous employer's repo with them when they switch jobs. One of my most cringeworthy moments was when I saw the same XyzUtil class pop up in two different companies, and both had been sourced from the same (not open source) third company rep…

Pretty sure it happened in Europe and UK in early '00s too, from my limited experience. Sure, not in an obvious way, but it happened - mostly kept as a reference to go back when you're sure you've already seen/solved this or that problem before. I mean, in Europe salespeople routinely take customer contact-lists with them whenever they move, everybody knows it. Developers do the equivalent stuff in their field. Asian…

[deleted]

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#184

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, May 15, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

generatorguy wrote: post #182

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nortel was hit by the tech bubble bursting, then engaged in financial fraud.[1][2] Blaming Huawei for Nortel's failure is a pretty massive rewrite of history. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-files-for-bankruptc... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN1936265020080619

tech bubble burst in 2001, Huawei hacking of nortel was 2004-2009. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag... https://aragonresearch.com/cyber-war-flashback-remembering-t...

Not Huawei hacking - alleged Chinese hacking. By that time, Nortel had already been hit by the bursting of the tech bubble - which it never really recovered from - and was in the midst of a scandal in which top executives were accused of financial fraud. Nortel's final downfall occurred during the Great Recession, after years of limping along on life support. People blaming Huawei for Nortel's collapse are really banking on people forgetting the history of Nortel.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#185

Post by mardifoufs » Fri, May 15, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

amd-bull wrote: post #99

pretty shocking how biased these hn comments are against china. it's clear the US has lost leadership in the crucial technology of 5g and is trying everything it can to stop the leader, huawei. while i'm no china-phile, the US actions is just silly and will have far reaching consequences that will just quicken the demise of our technological prowess. and if you're gonna argue from the point of view that huawei broke…

How is that a bad thing? Would you rather see HN support a country with literal ethnic cleansing policies? Or one that executes dissenters or makes them disappear? Btw, China does not have the technical lead in 5G. Just the cheaper equipment. And chinese tech is barely able to reproduce 8-10 years old semiconductor technology on it's own, so it's very very far from technological lead. Unless you believe the CCP narrative that they will magically outpace America/the west by barely being able to catch up despite the enormous scale of their industrial espionage.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#186

Post by bilbo0s » Fri, May 15, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #158

bilbo0s wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the danger of being the patsy. I think more and more people should try to transact business at an arm's distance with China in this kind of environment. The opposite is true as well. Your average Chinese businessperson should think long and hard about transacting any business with the US that requires their physical presence in the US. All nations have way too many laws. You will be in violation of one of them…

At least in a democracy with a free press, you (the average person) can try to start a news frenzy and bug your elected government representatives to apply pressure on your behalf.

You have no elected officials. That's the point. You are an American being held for geopolitical reasons in China, or you are a Chinese citizen being held for geopolitical reasons in the US. There is no elected official representing you to which you can appeal. You're just screwed. Again, unless you are an elite and people will pull strings for you. But most of us here are not elites, we're too far down the chain. No one is going to pull strings for us. We just have to sit in prison until China and the US finish comparing bra sizes.

I'm saying both americans and chinese should be mindful of this risk when working in the other country.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#187

Post by whytaka » Fri, May 15, 2020, 7:59 PM UTC

Udik wrote: post #178

amd-bull wrote: post #99

pretty shocking how biased these hn comments are against china. it's clear the US has lost leadership in the crucial technology of 5g and is trying everything it can to stop the leader, huawei. while i'm no china-phile, the US actions is just silly and will have far reaching consequences that will just quicken the demise of our technological prowess. and if you're gonna argue from the point of view that huawei broke…

> pretty shocking how biased these hn comments are against china. And it took only a few years of media campaigns- the first one I remember was the announcement of spy chips in China-made boards, which turned out to be fake. It's scary how quickly you can steer public opinion to suit your needs.

It's actually been a long time coming: Tiananmen, South China Sea, Hong Kong protests, threats against Taiwan, Uyghurs, Tibet, Surveillance State, Authoritarian ruler for life, IP thefts, currency manipulation, shooting down satellites, lop-sided market access and more.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#188

Post by whytaka » Fri, May 15, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

surfcao wrote: post #160

dannyw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried letting China grow unchecked. Look at how that has turned out. It is time for the hammer now.

What's the problem with China's growth? China uses to be a friend when they can only manufacture T-shirts and socks, now a threat when they can even do chips and aircraft? The foreign policy of the US is a failure, wars in mid east and anti-terrorsim has costed too much, and that gave China an opportunity to grow. You cannot blame China for this. The business practice need to be changed for sure, but let's hope there…

Please refer here for some issues that come to mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23196719

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#189

Post by cryptonector » Fri, May 15, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

alisonatwork wrote: post #128

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

worked for a main competitor of Huawei building UMTS/LTE base stations which at the time weren't even properly standardized (early systems design). Searched for my own name on github. Found source code I wrote for said vendor which was taken from somebody who worked for our Hangzhou office and had access to the same internal VCS[1] as me. The guy downloaded anything he had access to then moved to Huawei and from ther…

I don't know anything about telecoms, but I work in a different area of software development in China and can confirm it is not uncommon for developers here to bring their whole previous employer's repo with them when they switch jobs. One of my most cringeworthy moments was when I saw the same XyzUtil class pop up in two different companies, and both had been sourced from the same (not open source) third company rep…

I'd be shocked to see this (employees taking employers' proprietary source code) happen in the U.S., or in Canada, or in Europe, or in Japan, or in South Korea, or in most of LatAm. I've no idea about Africa, India, and elsewhere, though I expect this doesn't happen in India either (possibly due to British influence).

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#190

Post by cryptonector » Fri, May 15, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #144

billme wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure speculation... All of this is about national security. US & Taiwan’s TSMC are in talks to open a TSMC factory in the US. Chairman of TSMC has publicly stated if the US gives them enough money, they’ll do it. Appears US (Trump) is telling TSMC if they do not open the factory for free, they’re going to have trouble making money at all. Taiwan wants to keep TSMC because it’s an insurance policy, China & the US both…

Hm, I think you and I mean a different thing by 'national security'. I think of, like, spying, or trying to insert malicious vulnerabilities in software (attack), etc. Like maybe if Huawei were accused of being used by the Chinese government to spy on America, it would make sense to require a license to sell tech to Huawei. (I have sometimes seen it accused of such; I have no idea how credible such accusations are; b…

> Hm, I think you and I mean a different thing by 'national security'. I think of, like, spying, or trying to insert malicious vulnerabilities in software (attack), etc.

Supply chain security is also part of national security. Economic (in)dependency is also part of national security. Economic well-being and competition is also part of national security. There's more to national security than espionage and military capabilities. You don't have to agree -- it doesn't matter if you don't because the people work in the national security apparatus do think that national security encompasses all of that and more, and their opinion matters a hell of a lot more than your typical HN commenter's (mine included).