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US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

cnbc.com

141–150 of 216 posts

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#141
post #57

What is it that is actually preventing this from escalating to a hot war? It feels like we are just waiting for China to manufacture enough warships and nukes or killer drones or AGI with spiking neural networks or whatever can give them an edge so that a real war can start. It's even a war in the comments section. I don't think it's safe. How do we really know it can't progress to some kind of overt military activit…

We tried letting China grow unchecked. Look at how that has turned out.

It is time for the hammer now.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#142

the last time we effectively blocked china from acquiring tunneling machines, they ended up building their own, a mean feat, and now they're looking to start exporting them! disrupting the market economy has a vicious way of getting back at ya [0] http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1121448.shtml

That sounds boring to me.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#143
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it happened in Europe and UK in early '00s too, from my limited experience. Sure, not in an obvious way, but it happened - mostly kept as a reference to go back when you're sure you've already seen/solved this or that problem before. I mean, in Europe salespeople routinely take customer contact-lists with them whenever they move, everybody knows it. Developers do the equivalent stuff in their field. Asian…

Asians don’t do it more bluntly. Chinese do. Sorry if I sound pedantic, but this is just insulting.

[deleted]

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#144
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand why they are requiring a license to sell to Huawei in the first place. That this is all such a string of vagueness makes me suspect it's a bunch of bullshit, more about politics (in the 'optics' sense) or business competitiveness than actual national security.

Pure speculation... All of this is about national security. US & Taiwan’s TSMC are in talks to open a TSMC factory in the US. Chairman of TSMC has publicly stated if the US gives them enough money, they’ll do it. Appears US (Trump) is telling TSMC if they do not open the factory for free, they’re going to have trouble making money at all. Taiwan wants to keep TSMC because it’s an insurance policy, China & the US both…

Hm, I think you and I mean a different thing by 'national security'. I think of, like, spying, or trying to insert malicious vulnerabilities in software (attack), etc.

Like maybe if Huawei were accused of being used by the Chinese government to spy on America, it would make sense to require a license to sell tech to Huawei. (I have sometimes seen it accused of such; I have no idea how credible such accusations are; but this is an example of what 'national security' means to me, particularly in regard to requiring licenses to do business with a particular company).

You seem to be talking about whether TSMC gets a federal subsidy or not to open a factory or not as 'national security'. I mean, I get how the general economic environment has 'national secuirty' implications; how the future access to semiconductor market has 'national security' implications. But if that's "national security" it seems like the entire economy is "national security", and "national security" doesn't actually mean anything. Especially when Huawei is being penalized for concerns about a different company?

With that understanding of national security, is there any aspect of international trade negotiations that isn't "national security", or any international trade measure that can't be said to be "justified by national security"? Do you have an example of any international trade measure (a tariff, an embargo, a subsidy, a penalty, a ban, any method of one nation trying to get an economic/trade advantage over another) that you do not think would be "national security" related under this understanding? Is there such a thing?

Among other things, it's another reminder that the era of legal-norms-based international trade has been brought to an end...

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#145
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country of Canadian laws, not American laws.

Indeed, and Canadian laws say that we should arrest her and probably extradite her to the US subject to the outcome of some hearings.

The standard for extradition is that the alleged infraction must also be a crime in the country being asked to extradite. So that's what Canada is trying to determine right now.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#146

the last time we effectively blocked china from acquiring tunneling machines, they ended up building their own, a mean feat, and now they're looking to start exporting them! disrupting the market economy has a vicious way of getting back at ya [0] http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1121448.shtml

They are already building their own chips. Huawei has started to use 14nm chips manufactured by Shanghai-based SMIC. They plan to replace TSMC's chips with SMIC's chips in their phones. TSMC blocking will just accelerate their plans.

https://www.gizmochina.com/2020/05/12/huawei-kirin-710a-smic...

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pulling this crap only incentives China to develop their own silicon. Operating under the assumption this isnt already a priority to them, which I would say is a big assumption. You're looking at this as if it was in absence of the rest of the trade footings of the two countries. The west is building stuff in this industry - semi conductors. The east is operating heavy industrial espionage to try and steal all the s…

If you're scared of cheap knockoffs, it's exactly the perception that your product is somehow superior that you want. Part of that might be less risk exposure to lawsuits for incorporating stolen IP. But if you eliminate the legal option, the grey area alternative becomes normalized. IP is also a highly artificial construct. If all documents were suddenly in the open, and your competitors are suddenly able to build a…

It would simply devolve into whichever nation decides to put the most money into subsidies, removing environmental protections, and facilitating slave-like labor conditions.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#148
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Source on this? I certainly haven't heard the government say anything to this effect. I'm basing this on the government's paralysis in this case. > We're a country of laws. Canada's system of laws is being abused by the Trump administration, which has made no secret of its desire to use Meng Wanzhou as a bargaining chip in the trade war. Allowing the Canadian extradition treaty with the US to be abused for politica…

> I'm basing this on the government's paralysis in this case. What paralysis? It's moving through the court system at the court systems typical pace. (Which is slower than I would like... but that's just a general comment about our court system) > Canada's system of laws is being abused by the Trump administration This is primarily an argument for amending our laws in response to this case, not ignoring them in this…

So you're saying we should all ignore the very, very obvious political angles here and trust that it's all about the rule of law, applied neutrally and apolitically?

Next you'll be telling us that a police officer would never lie on the stand.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#149

I think we should all keep something in mind before we go celebrate the end of globalization. If we go on a rampage pulling manufacturing and capital out of China while simultaneously blaming them for the pandemic, in a few years we’ll end up seeing a nation with a shattered economy, a pissed off populace, and the largest and most well supplied army on Earth. Rhetoric tends to devolve into a limited decision matrix w…

"in a few years we’ll end up seeing a nation with a shattered economy, a pissed off populace, and the largest and most well supplied army on Earth."

I wouldn't make such a dire prediction about the future of America.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#150
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The end result of this is to ensure that China develops their own semi conductor industry Seems to me that's happening either way and probably always was. Why wouldn't they?

It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. Similar to how the google ban fast tracked Huawei working on google free systems e.g. buying third party map services like TomTom. Bad for Google good for competition. Basically the…

> It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point.

I'm not sure why that's besides the point? The U.S. for years worked to invest in China and build them as a great trading partner and the CCP continued to just steal trade secrets and do everything in their power to undermine the U.S..

And it's probably true that this development was fast tracked by the trade war... but so what? This was coming since the CCP didn't want to be a partner with the West, so why wait around to cut the ties? It's going to happen either way, why not happen on your terms?

W.r.t Trump's "bully" diplomacy - I mean, playing nice certainly didn't work. We don't need to and shouldn't be trading partners with China so long as they're acting against U.S. and western interests in general. The U.S. tried to engage and endured years of malevolent activity by the CCP only to have the actions worsen over time. So... I'm not really sure what the advantage to the U.S. is besides having a big market. Ban Chinese products in the U.S. and China can ban U.S. products. Whatever.

> Cost-wise in particular, Chinese offers for infrastructure development present more attractive propositions

Sure. For now. And if you only want to look at cost. Maybe you want to look at other factors, like maybe you're Vietnam and concerned about the Chinese ramming your fishing boats? [1]

[1] https://www.news.com.au/world/south-china-sea-tensions-at-ne...

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