US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#61

Post by onemoresoop » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

bildung wrote: post #30

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #11

This after previous indictments of Huawei for RICO violations and theft of trade secrets from USA companies T-Mobile, Qualcomm, and Cisco. Including theft of 5G technology that is now being used in equipment sold to EU countries. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-co... [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-de... Whatever happened to arresting Huawei’s Chief Financia…

I will be very surprised if Huawei would be found guilty of anything. The company plays an important role in actually defining the 5G standard as a member of 3GPP, and holds 3 times the number of 5G patents than Qualcomm. I mean, look at the number of contributions to the 5G standards by company in this document, and compare the positions of Huawei, Qualcomm and Cisco: https://www.iplytics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019…

Making contributions doesn’t cancel stealing secrets. We all know most of the chinese technology was IP stolen and improved upon. Lets take for example Solowheel. Do you know the story behind it?

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#62

Post by Mindless2112 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #44

roenxi wrote: post #34

I doubt this will be my most popular comment on HN but Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China. I know the Obama administration made some noises but I don't recall them actually inconveniencing China in a serious way. To me this is all naked geopolitics, hardly f…

>Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China He might deserve congratulations if his strategies made sense, but they seem more likely to hurt the US than China in the long run.

Which is still an improvement over his predecessors who were playing "kick the can".

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#63

Post by thawaway1837 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #34

I doubt this will be my most popular comment on HN but Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China. I know the Obama administration made some noises but I don't recall them actually inconveniencing China in a serious way. To me this is all naked geopolitics, hardly f…

Yes, Trump did something about China.

He got rid of the most effective global efforts to contain China’s growth through the TPP. I know HN hates the TPP because of amorphous claims about IP, but flouting IP norms forms the entire basis of these actions by Trump, and the whole point of TPP’a IP protections (which HN hated, apparently) was to make sure China’s neighbors would not flout IP protections the way China did, giving private companies incentives to move manufacturing and research from China to the neighboring countries instead.

That would have been a broad ranging global effort to ensure China followed rules, that would have cost the US nothing (in fact other countries were making concessions to the US for it), and would not have required 2-3 years of barely legal efforts to contain 1 Chinese company and even there only in the US market, but would have instead affected all Chinese companies, non Chinese companies manufacturing in China, and not just the US market but also eastern Asian and Australasian markets.

So yeah, if by Trump did something you mean he dismantled an effort that would have been more effective by orders of magnitude and cost the US nothing but actually won it more friends in favor of a barely legal effort that is pissing off even allies that are not friendly to China and has taken 3 years to maybe impact 1 Chinese company, then sure.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#64

Post by zadokshi » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

isatty wrote: post #26

shmel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might feel different depending where you live. If one lives in Europe, I don't see why US or Chinese spying should be perceived differently.

Maybe because there are human rights in the US?

No, there are no ‘human rights’ in America. There are only ‘American rights’. Non US citizens are not protected by the Constitution. Do not have free speech, etc...

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#65

Post by asdf123wtf » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #34

I doubt this will be my most popular comment on HN but Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China. I know the Obama administration made some noises but I don't recall them actually inconveniencing China in a serious way. To me this is all naked geopolitics, hardly f…

Obama was quietly working on the TPP. It or something like it would probably have been the better strategy to check Chinese power and put us on a path to decouple from them, while boosting friendly allies in their orbit.

Trump pulled out of the deal and decided to do a trade war instead.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#66

Post by gpm » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #49

gpm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Canadian government wishes they had never gotten involved - they should have just let her slip. With the US and China, Canada is between a rock and a hard place. Source on this? I certainly haven't heard the government say anything to this effect. As a Canadian I certainly do not wish we had "just let her slip". We're a country of laws. We should follow those laws, not just give in to pressure from China becaus…

> Source on this? I certainly haven't heard the government say anything to this effect. I'm basing this on the government's paralysis in this case. > We're a country of laws. Canada's system of laws is being abused by the Trump administration, which has made no secret of its desire to use Meng Wanzhou as a bargaining chip in the trade war. Allowing the Canadian extradition treaty with the US to be abused for politica…

> I'm basing this on the government's paralysis in this case.

What paralysis? It's moving through the court system at the court systems typical pace. (Which is slower than I would like... but that's just a general comment about our court system)

> Canada's system of laws is being abused by the Trump administration

This is primarily an argument for amending our laws in response to this case, not ignoring them in this case. Admittedly it's partially an argument that might be raised to say that the laws do not support extradition in this case, but of course at the time we detained Meng Wanzhou this was nowhere near as clear, and her lawyers are more then capable of making this argument to the court.

> The possible US reaction to not extraditing Meng Wanzhou would be just as - if not more - scary.

Indeed, and we should pay as little attention to that as we do to China's threats and retaliatory arrests. I have complete faith that our courts are paying as little attention to it.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#67

Post by draw_down » Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

pluc wrote: post #51

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #11

This after previous indictments of Huawei for RICO violations and theft of trade secrets from USA companies T-Mobile, Qualcomm, and Cisco. Including theft of 5G technology that is now being used in equipment sold to EU countries. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-co... [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-de... Whatever happened to arresting Huawei’s Chief Financia…

We still have Meng, she's chilling in a million dollar mansion in Vancouver while China keeps a few of our citizens in actual jail for it.

> million dollar mansion in Vancouver

So, a condo then.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#68

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, May 15, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #44

roenxi wrote: post #34

I doubt this will be my most popular comment on HN but Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China. I know the Obama administration made some noises but I don't recall them actually inconveniencing China in a serious way. To me this is all naked geopolitics, hardly f…

>Trump really has to be congratulated for being the first President to actually do something about the growth in strategic strength of the absolutely terrifying regime that currently controls China He might deserve congratulations if his strategies made sense, but they seem more likely to hurt the US than China in the long run.

The problem for the US is that it is difficult to imagine a realistic, and peaceful, scenario in which China does not ultimately become a larger global power than the US.

The actions they are taking are delaying tactics but do not change the fundamentals. In fact, blocking shipments of semiconductors may even hasten the rise of a competing Chinese industry.

I think being #1 is deeply embedded in the American psyche and it is shocking for them to even imagine otherwise (Edit: as we see in these very comments and the reactions...), which is actually a risk for world peace, IMHO.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#69

Post by jrochkind1 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

> Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross told Fox Business “there has been a very highly technical loophole through which Huawei has been in able, in effect, to use U.S. technology with foreign fab producers.” Ross called the rule change a “highly tailored thing to try to correct that loophole.”

This is very vague. Does anyone understand what they are talking about?

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#70

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Fri, May 15, 2020, 1:02 PM UTC

bildung wrote: post #30

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #11

This after previous indictments of Huawei for RICO violations and theft of trade secrets from USA companies T-Mobile, Qualcomm, and Cisco. Including theft of 5G technology that is now being used in equipment sold to EU countries. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-co... [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-de... Whatever happened to arresting Huawei’s Chief Financia…

I will be very surprised if Huawei would be found guilty of anything. The company plays an important role in actually defining the 5G standard as a member of 3GPP, and holds 3 times the number of 5G patents than Qualcomm. I mean, look at the number of contributions to the 5G standards by company in this document, and compare the positions of Huawei, Qualcomm and Cisco: https://www.iplytics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019…

worked for a main competitor of Huawei building UMTS/LTE base stations which at the time weren't even properly standardized (early systems design). Searched for my own name on github. Found source code I wrote for said vendor which was taken from somebody who worked for our Hangzhou office and had access to the same internal VCS[1] as me. The guy downloaded anything he had access to then moved to Huawei and from there to another Chinese state owned company. He uploaded everything to his own github account (under his real name). Not even an isolated case. They don't even have to plant a mole in your org in the West they can simply just coerce Chinese based employees to extract interesting IP from your sites in China. These guys just don't give a f*ck! (also Nokia, Ericsson management were never held accountable for enabling this by opening up sites in China without thinking this won't bite them. they all did it because of promise of cheap manufacture and they all got rolled. thousands of jobs lost in Europe and the US as a consequence so it's not just the Chinese who are to blame here)

note: I was involved in early tech standardization on 3GPP for many years. yes Huawei contributes a lot. That doesn't mean they also don't steal your shit. They do it because there literally is no way to hold them accountable. You just got to make sure you don't travel to a country that may extradite you to the US. And by the way they are _not_ the leader in 5G. This is constantly parroted propaganda. You can get the same "mature" Tech for 5G from Ericsson, Nokia ... yes Huawei might have more patents but you can only sell what the standard supports in terms of interoperability, and so the constant claim that the only 5G player is Huawei is plain wrong.

[1] obviously we didn't use github to manage our source code.