Just wanted to add this, there is videos of the guy's car getting attacked right before he ran into that crowd of people (he was coming to a stop in front of the crowd). I think this case isn't that black and white.
Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
181–190 of 420 posts
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The leftist thugs deserve criticism, and they should be prosecuted when they cause property damage or harm people. But they weren't the problem at Charlottesville. There, Nazis, the KKK and other White Supremacists marched to prove that their race was better than others. That deserves to be condemned in itself. They also ended up killing someone in what appears to be a deliberate act.
The nazis had the demonstration permit (not that one should be needed). BOTH sides were the problem, because BOTH sides were engaging in violence. That's exactly what Trump said. This country isn't a safe space; seems many want it like that.
The counter-protestors had a demonstration permit as well, for a park a block away. The violence didn't take place in either park, and the permits aren't a free pass for violence, so the permits are entirely irrelevant.
Only one side killed someone in a domestic terror incident (according to the mayor of Charlottesville).
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are there? I mean, I see lots of false equivalence arguments and (possibly fair, possibly not) criticisms of political violence from left-leaning groups. But surely no one is arguing "Nazis aren't bad" on HN?
>I see lots of false equivalence arguments and (possibly fair, possibly not) If they are fair then it's just equivalence, not false equivalence. I feel like this has become the new vogue term thrown around since Charlottesville happened, and it's seeing a lot of misuse. Most people don't even bother to explain why the equivalence is false, thus attempting to shut down the conversation in the manner of the fallacy fal…
What is true and fair is that Obama failed to condemn numerous left-wing violent acts and so far Trump has condemned all of the ones that the media attributes to the right, and the left for that matter but that's probably a negative to many posters here.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
So let's talk about that. On the day the shooter was killed, Obama gave a press conference[1] where he said: We still don’t know all the facts. What we do know is that there’s been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement. Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their job, keeping people safe during a peaceful protest. These law enforcement officers were targeted, and nearly a dozen officers were s…
Let's not forget that Obama immediately used the Dallas shootings as an opportunity to aggrandize gun control at the same time. During his Paris release he also said: "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately, it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic, [...] In the days ahead, we will have to consider those realities as well. In the meantime, today, our focus is on the vic…
An attack on heavily armed police by one guy with an assault rifle is a pretty good time to talk about gun control.
So are politicians just supposed to reply "That was horrible" and not look at the underlying causes or events that allowed it to happen?
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the factual moderate news media It's not a conspiracy. You can have emergent bias as much as planned bias. That's basically the position of various HR departments who offer unconscious bias training. At any rate, every study I've seen has confirmed that most media orgs at least lean left. Have you seen any that disagree?
> At any rate, every study I've seen has confirmed that most media orgs at least lean left 1) Links to studies? 2) Having a leaning in op-eds doesn't mean a bias in facts reported. I'd assume if you have 0 bias there would be no point in lying about facts, but regardless of left-leaning or right-leaning organisations, the real issue is whether you present truth or not.
Here's one about campaign donations:
http://time.com/money/4533729/hillary-clinton-journalist-cam...
There are plenty more if you Google around. And they go back way before Trump was on the scene.
I'd be interested to see studies that dispute these findings. I haven't seen any.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not about some general vague problem with "extremism" of which supposedly all sides are guilty. This is about the emergence of a right-wing terrorist movement which has already committed several attacks. When your first reaction to this is to to bring in some unspecified crimes of the left, then this calls into question whether you understand the seriousness of the situation. There is a real chance that real,…
Let's try it this way: This is not about some general vague problem with "extremism" of which supposedly all sides are guilty. This is about the emergence of an Islamic terrorist movement which has already committed several attacks. When your first reaction to this is to to bring in some unspecified crimes of the US, then this calls into question whether you understand the seriousness of the situation. There is a rea…
> encourage Republicans to pass another law against terrorism
At the moment it's more a question of preventing them from passing laws legalising (certain kinds of) terrorism, in this case assaulting and murdering protestors with vehicles:
https://thinkprogress.org/republican-lawmakers-in-6-states-a...
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#187Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#188I hate to get involved in politics here at HN, but maybe I can contribute a comment that really isn't politics but is business and news strategy ? First, I try to stay up on the news , that is, the facts about what has been happening. Well, there's a lot of news on the Internet, so I can get a lot of input on some version of what has been happening. At this point, to me, the news doesn't make any sense. The news does…
This is so confusing to me. Most of the stuff I see in the news that you are referring to as "made-up, cooked-up, stirred-up", etc., is stuff you can see video of. It's clear, from video, that there was a gathering of white supremacists, which became violent and resulted in deaths. It's clear, from video, that the President's response to this was weasely equivocation. It's clear, from primary sources like Twitter, that a number of white supremacists saw that weasely response as tacit support for their cause. This is what I've learned about this topic from the news this week, and presumably what these CEOs have learned as well. It is all very easily sourced, and definitely not gossip.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The leftist thugs deserve criticism, and they should be prosecuted when they cause property damage or harm people. But they weren't the problem at Charlottesville. There, Nazis, the KKK and other White Supremacists marched to prove that their race was better than others. That deserves to be condemned in itself. They also ended up killing someone in what appears to be a deliberate act.
The nazis had the demonstration permit (not that one should be needed). BOTH sides were the problem, because BOTH sides were engaging in violence. That's exactly what Trump said. This country isn't a safe space; seems many want it like that.
The Nazis were actively marching for and advocating violence towards other people. Their message was inciting hate speeches and calling to arms other Nazis against groups of people, even putting them at risk. (Which even led to woman getting murdered on the streets by a lunatic in a car)
They were jumping blacks on the streets, burning crosses and swastikas. This is not just a "demonstration", this was actively inciting riots and violence which no "permit" gives rights to.
Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> to bring in some unspecified crimes of the left I realize that a large portion of young social media posters have already forgotten about this. Probably because John Oliver doesn't talk about it, and that's often their primary source of news analysis. But the Majority Whip for the U.S. Congress is STILL in recovery from a mass shooting over two months ago, by a deranged left-wing activist. In Dallas last year, 5 po…
I would applaud you identifying as a moderate if I didn't read you just mock John Oliver, BLM, and the nut job whom you identified as a "left-wing" activist that shot the Member of Congress. so you are a moderate eh? > The mob has the intellect and the attention span of a goldfish.> This is quite a statement. You so wish this was true. If it was, then you could get away with writing trash opinions pretending to be mo…
The nut job volunteered for the Sanders campaign and asked if the people he was going to shoot were Democrats or Republicans. You might not identify him as left-wing but he sure as hell did himself. By the same logic, reasonable right-wingers could claim that the white supremacists aren't actually right-wing.
That's different than just condemning their actions and calling them nut jobs. It shifts the problem away from people who are in a position to maybe make an impact. Even if it's unlikely that extremists on either side are going to come to their senses, it's much more likely that the whip shooter would engage in conversation someone with a strong left-wing orientation, and that some white supremacists listen to Trump when he uses the right kind of language.
If you are part of a political movement, or any group with strong opinions really, it's a moral duty not just to accept that there are people in your group who go too far but also to use your standing to call them out on it.
John Oliver has made some excellent commentary, but you can hardly call it balanced. Maybe for good reason, but nonetheless. BLM is awesome and necessary, however they walk a thin line between protesting against oppression and demonizing police, which some take as encouragement for violence. It's a continuing sturggle to to tell people on "your side" that they're wrong and going too far, much harder and more important than to belittle or protest against people that you naturally disagree with.