UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears • Hacker News Board

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#171

Post by pimterry » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:32 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #112

wrong_variable wrote: post #19

Large Multinationals like Unilever, even for incremental decisions - like changing the type of light bulb, takes years to execute. This is why a large change in their business is so difficult and you need a very good CEO ( ask Marissa Mayer ) The decision UK made to leave the EU is akin for Unilever to switch from selling shampoos to selling software - and we are not talking about a multinational with 100,000 employe…

usually the horizon for bringing new laws into action are declared ahead of time by 4-5 years to give people/businesses time to plan. There's a legal requirement as part of the Lisbon treaty that as soon as a country invokes Article 50 (leaving the EU) they have 2 years to negotiate treaties with all parties involved, after which all existing EU treaties with that country cease to apply . That means, from the day the…

She's said she won't invoke article 50 before the end of the year, so there's a little breathing room at least.

> "What is important is that we do this in the right timescale and we do it to get the right deal for the UK," Ms May told ITV television, reiterating that she would not trigger the article this year.)

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/no-exit-trigger-unt...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#172

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #108

2skep wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a result of majority voters voting in favour of Brexit and to recover the democratic deficit and negotiate UK's exit from the EU a new PM has been appointed who did not support Leave. She was selected by Westminster which is largely supportive of Remain It would be very hard not to conclude that it is actually Westminster that is retarding democracy.

> She was selected Or, maybe, the only thing Brexiters know how to do with problems and responsibilities is to "exit"/run away from them? (e.g.: Johnson, Farage, Leadsom,...)

Slur on "Brexiters" aside, the government called a referendum - it has the responsibility of a plan. Otherwise, who foots the bill for such a plan?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#173

Post by niccolop » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

endeavour wrote: post #159

wrong_variable wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide some examples of countries striking better trade deals. Its also two things negotiators and knowing your strengths. The world's best negotiators wont be able help you very much if you do not have much to offer. Also I am skeptical of your assertion that anyone could write trade deals. It requires a very deep understanding of economics, international finance, geopolitics and a bunch of other topics -…

Chile, Switzerland and Iceland all have free trade agreements with China. The EU doesn't.

What was the combined value of their trade into China in 2015?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#174

Post by mc32 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #160

mc32 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of things: The UK has premier scientists. The EU would be remiss to not find a way to work things out. If not, I'm sure other places will pick them up. These are field leading scientists. Two, upper middle class still don't get it. They're still tone deaf. The Brexit was the working class demanding what was promised them, which was prosperity that never came. Instead they got sold out for a cheaper European wo…

The UK's premier scientists can always get jobs elsewhere - and probably will. After a while, if research funding dries up, there won't be any more premier scientists being produced. Two, if you vote for people who are going to deny you prosperity, you don't get prosperity. If the working classes don't understand that, it's not the fault of the professional classes who - mostly - do. The reality is that some of those…

I still don't hear the voice of the working class in your response. Never the less, both the Tories and Labour fleeced the working class with the promise that they too could enjoy the prosperity the professional class would get to enjoy.

The problem with socialists with respect to the working class, is that they treat the working classes all as one. The native working class are subverted for the non native working class. They didn't work hard enough for their own working class. The English and Welsh working class want the UK government to work and care for them, then, when they meet that, they can work on their pan- European workin class... However, the UK working class were given the short shrift, and now they are demanding what was promised them. And, lead to what it may, there is satisfaction in having your hand on your destiny, because frankly, leaving it in the hands of others have left them holding the empty bag of promises.

[s/subterfuged/subverted]

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#175

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:37 PM UTC

DasIch wrote: post #20

mason240 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, they warned that the EU would be as punitive as possible. Their reaction to Brexit it shows that was necessary.

The UK not getting the same things a EU member would get is not being punitive.

Is is if it is of mutual benefit, except to the EU in general.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#176

Post by rwmj » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

djlastword wrote: post #169

hardlianotion wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the reaction will be simply to adopt minimal changes in the short term in ways in which Euro treaties and laws are brought wholesale onto Westminster statute books. Significant change will only occur over time and limbo is to be avoided where possible - not just for the UK, but for everyone else as well. This is the only thing that would make sense even if everything was planned and orderly, which I thin…

I think you're underestimating the psychological aspect of Brexit. We Europeans feel betrayed and abandoned by the Brits. Especially since they always demanded and got special deals on everything EU-related anyway. Their arrogance will finally get to them. Plus we have access to another 27 countries so the loss will not be huge for us. No matter when official negotiations start, trade and other collaboration will sta…

Please don't view everyone in the UK as one "thing", as if all British people are (in your words) arrogant. 48% of people voted to remain in the EU.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#177

Post by endeavour » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #129

endeavour wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that simple. There isn't a linear relationship between the tax % and the revenue to the treasury. Lower taxes encourage more companies to set up in the UK. We saw this recently in the UK when the top rate of income tax was raised to 50% and the income to the treasury actually fell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

As I wrote, the tax cuts are being proposed to compensate for lower investment due to brexit, and it is unclear whether they will be able to compensate fully.

Ok but the numbers you quoted assumed a linear relationship.

In no way is it "almost certain" that investment in the UK will decrease. The evidence currently suggests the complete opposite. Look at the performance of the FTSE100 since the referendum to see the flood of foreign investment coming into the UK listed companies thanks to the weaker currency.

I'd also point out that decreasing tax rates is the exact opposite of what the chancellor said he would do before the referendum.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#178

Post by barrkel » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

endeavour wrote: post #159

wrong_variable wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide some examples of countries striking better trade deals. Its also two things negotiators and knowing your strengths. The world's best negotiators wont be able help you very much if you do not have much to offer. Also I am skeptical of your assertion that anyone could write trade deals. It requires a very deep understanding of economics, international finance, geopolitics and a bunch of other topics -…

Chile, Switzerland and Iceland all have free trade agreements with China. The EU doesn't.

It's not in the EU's interest to have a free trade agreement with China; the US doesn't have one either.

China pursues a mercantilist strategy in many respects. Take steel, for example: unrestricted trade with China would wreak havoc on Germany's steel industry, with potential knock-on effects further along the value chain - and there's no guarantee that China would keep steel prices low after predatory pricing.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#179

Post by neximo64 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #170

flexie wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to a senior diplomat recently. He said that when talking to diplomats from China, Russia, the US in the beginning of his career some 30 years ago, nobody asked about the EU opinion on issues. In the last 10 years, however, he never heard "what does Britain or France or Germany think about XYZ" but only "What does the EU think". What some leavers don't realise is that the entire world had gotten used to deali…

Since the UK and France are permanent U.N. security council members, that sounds rather hyperbolic.

The next steps will actually be France will give up its seat and the EU will take it up.

The UK was also going to give it up (alongside its WTO seat) which was what drove Cameron's 'ever closer union' clause.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#180

Post by tremon » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #97

peteretep wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you specify some of the "EU regulations" that we should be getting out from under?

Oh, just workers rights, human rights, safety regulations, that sort of thing...

Not sure if sarcasm, but:

- Human rights are governed by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), which is a separate organization and treaty than the EU. It's unlikely the UK will leave the Council of Europe too.

- Safety regulations on products are part of the single market treaties, just as free movement of people is. If the UK wants to remain in the EEA (e.g. through membership of the EFTA), it will still have to accept those.